Divine Design in Utah

This is so incredibly painful I can barely type. I suppose I should be used to my state making a fool of itself, though.

I'm sure the DI is simply ecstatic about Buttars' push for "divine design". With friends like these...

Don't worry about it, Harq al-Ada, the only state in the Union that doesn't make a fool of itself on a regualr basis is...uh...yeah.

Some people in officialdom in Utah have gotten more careful since I moved out: Buttars' biography at the Utah State Senate does not indicate whether he is a member of the Latter-day Saints.

When I worked with the legislature in Utah, there were perhaps a dozen non-Mormon members (at least one of whom was still there last time I checked). I will assume Buttars is Mormon.

It's close to "false doctrine" in the Mormon church to teach creationism against evolution. Buttars ought to go check with Duane Jeffrey, a distinguished zoologist at Brigham Young University and a director of the National Center for Science Education (NCSE). Buttars may have missed it in college, since he majored in marketing, but especially his alma mater, Utah State University, could set him straight.

Beyond that, he should ask himself these questions about his proposal:

Is it the TRUTH? "Divine design" is not taught in the biology department of any Utah institution of higher learning. There is no research program in it at any research institution. It does not meet standards required for good curriculum design. I'll wager Mr. Buttars made no attempt to confirm his beliefs with any person familiar with the issues, either in

Is it the TRUTH? "Divine design" is not taught in the biology department of any Utah institution of higher learning. There is no research program in it at any research institution. It does not meet standards required for good curriculum design.

Having been a resident of Utah and moved away, it really is amusing to hear a Buttars-ism. This guy is a non-stop barrel of monkeys. I double dare you to Google him, he has a litany of greatest hits. He will be disavowed by the DI. He has way too big of a mouth for them. He never shuts up. He is definitely LDS, but they tend to not get involved with evolution so much. By definition the Mormon Church favors God as creator, but are much more supportive of most if not all of evolution, as other commenters have posted.

"We get different types of dogs and different types of cats, but you have never seen a 'dat,' " he said.

"The divine design is a counter to the kids' belief that we all come from monkeys. Because we didn't,"

Well he got one thing right. Too bad he doesn't realize why he got it right.

>"We get different types of dogs and different types of cats, but you have never seen a 'dat,' " he said.<

No, but we are certainly seeing a phucking IDIOT!

> "We get different types of dogs and different types of cats, but you have never seen a 'dat,' " he said.

I've seen a hyaena, which is wonky enough. Not that they're closely related to dogs, but they used to confuse the hell out of me when I was little. Thought their designer was Dr. Frankenstein with a pair of scissors.

Can any Mormons in the audience help me out with this? I've heard it claimed (by someone critical of Mormonism and admiring of a man who's made it one of his devotions to anti-evangelize Mormonism) that Mormons (once) held to a belief that non-caucasian people were descended from monkeys (but I suppose not caucasians). Is this claim about the Mormon belief accurate?

Hmmm. My last post was truncated a lot. I wonder if the rest will show up in the fullness of time.

Try posting it again. The software must have eaten the end.

"We get different types of dogs and different types of cats, but you have never seen a 'dat,' " he said.

Hey we should be grateful for guys like Buttars..

If it weren't for people like 'dat' we wouldn't know what an ultra maroon is..

Re ""The divine design is a counter to the kids' belief that we all come from monkeys. Because we didn't,"
Well he got one thing right. Too bad he doesn't realize why he got it right."

Question - would the common ancestor of apes and monkeys be something we'd call an ape, or a monkey?

Henry

Buttars is not only wrong, but he can't spell.
I bet you taut you taw a puddy tat.

I've heard it claimed...that Mormons (once) held to a belief that non-caucasian people were descended from monkeys (but I suppose not caucasians). Is this claim about the Mormon belief accurate?

No, Mormons didn't hold to a belief that non-caucasians came from monkeys.

This guy's clearly never been to New Orleans. We see dis and dat all da time.

That black vs caucasian vs monkey thing sounded vaguely familiar (from someone going on about a bizarre form of racism on one of these forums the other year) but not in connection with Mormons. It's taken me a while to collect enough scraps of memory (without any names to go on) for google, but try this as a start:
http://answering-islam.org.uk/NoI/noi2.html
and then perhaps look up some of the names of people involved for their own version, eg I now recognise that name Fard as having been mentioned before.

PS If you must have a link between monkey and mormon try Darwin's "The Descent of Man" ;-)
eg http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext00/dscmn10.txt
(it may take a while to load before you can text search for "mormon")

Did THE DESIGNER design stupidity? Damn good job, eh?

http://www.tulsabeacon.com/1.htm 'UnAmerican idols' at the Tulsa Zoo? Tulsa's Park and Recreation Board is debating on whether Christian influence should be given equal consideration to pantheism, Hinduism and other pagan religions prominently displayed at the Tulsa Zoo. At a May 3 meeting, board members tabled a proposal to display an exhibit that alludes to the Bible's account of Creation. The matter will be on the agenda at 8:30 a.m. June 7 when the board meets at Lacy Park. Mayor Bill LaFortune and mayoral aide Clay Bird have pledged their support for Christian display but Dan Hicks, who has pushed for the display, said he can't count on their support. LaFortune has a history of making unfulfilled promises when it comes to Christian groups. Early in his term, LaFortune pledged his support for a Community Block Grant for Cornerstone Assistance Network but then abandoned the Christian organization when it was opposed by Councilor Susan Neal. Hicks said his display, a series of photographs by Oregon photographer Rick Ergenbright from his book, The Art of God, should be presented because of the numerous displays of pagan religions throughout the zoo. Either put them all up or take them all down, Hicks said. An assistant city attorney told Hicks the Christian display could only be approved if it had a disclaimer that reads, "Acts of creation are contained in the literature of many cultures. This display is an example of one view of our origin." In the zoo's Beginnings of Life exhibit, a plaque reads, "Scientists believe that life began in the oceans. Electrical storms were the key to forming organic compounds called amino acids from the four most common gasses in the earth's primitive atmosphere: ammonia, methane, hydrogen and water vapor. Amino acids are the basic building blocks of all living things, and were deposited by rain in the oceans." A poster about birds reads, "Birds are essentially reptiles with feathers and a constant body temperature." "It teaches evolution as fact," Hicks said. "That is one view. Why is my view excluded?" Hicks said a recent poll showed 60 percent of Oklahomans believe God created man and another 33 percent believe God created man using evolution. The number who think God had no part of the process was 3 percent. "The Genesis account is shared by the Christian, Jewish and Muslim faiths," Hicks said. "It should be an important part of the origins' exhibit." In front of the elephant compound is a Hindu statue with the following information: "The Ganesha is a beautiful example of artistic expression, reflecting a cultural belief that is strongly influenced by the presence and power of elephants. This statue was hand carved from granite in Madras, India. As a symbol of wisdom and goodwill, the Ganesha is said to bring luck to students preparing for exams." "Ganesha is the son of Shiva," Hicks said. "He is the first god a Hindu chants to. This violates the first and second commandments (of the 10 Commandments) and it is very offensive." The board has five members and three votes are needed to add the Christian display. Hicks said he hoped the Mayor and board member Walt Helmerich would vote for the display. If the board turns down the request and continues to display the pagan images, Hicks said he anticipated a lawsuit would follow that would force the city to accommodate the city's Christian population.

It's close to "false doctrine" in the Mormon church to teach creationism against evolution. Buttars ought to go check with Duane Jeffrey, a distinguished zoologist at Brigham Young University and a director of the National Center for Science Education (NCSE). Buttars may have missed it in college, since he majored in marketing, but especially his alma mater, Utah State University, could set him straight.

On April 7, 1931, the church's governing First Presidency, headed by Heber J. Grant, addressed the general authorities: "Leave geology, biology, archaeology and anthropology, no one of which has to do with the salvation of the souls of mankind, to scientific research, while we magnify our calling in the realm of the Church." In practice, this has meant that the physical sciences curriculum at BYU has not been turned over to the religion department. Students troubled by the course work receive a packet containing all of the Church's official statements concerning evolution, as well as the chapter on evolution found in The Encyclopedia of Mormonism. In short, beyond reaffirming that Adam was "the primal parent of our race," the official statements say that God hasn't made his mind known about evolution. Despite the Smith-Roberts dust-up, the church has spent comparatively little time or trouble on evolution. It has never been a Mormon issue. The church has been quite happy to move on to the real business of religion while saying about evolution, "We don't know." ... In fairness, creationism is also taught at BYU. You just have to go to the religion department to hear it.

I know that there is one church that comes around where I live and tries to give out anti-evolution propaganda of various sorts. They only ever came around to my flat once.

Wonder why? ;)

Buttars' puppetmaster in all this is Utah's chief busybody, Gayle Ruzicka, a rabid right-wing rabble-rouser if there ever was.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out among the Mormon faithful, who do not HAVE to believe in YECism to be "worthy" in the eyes of the church.

Even Brigham Young University doesn't pooh-pooh evolution, though I understand that the the first lecture in their paleontology course is a sort of apology for Darwin's theory.

I looked over past editions of the church-owned Deseret News back to when this story was carried in the Salt Lake Tribune, and surprisingly, if it was covered at all it must have been buried very deeply on the back pages. They did, however, feature a front-page story on BYU's growing prominence in molecular biology:

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600138191,00.html

Maybe we're all jumping the gun and this is what they want to teach in Utah: Divine Design

Some possibly relevant links:

(1) Michael Whiting's May 24, 2005, Brigham Young University Devotional address: "Charles Darwin and the Tree of Life: Some Assembly Required": transcript and video.

(2) The official BYU Evolution Packet

Some possibly relevant links:

(1) Michael Whiting's May 24, 2005, Brigham Young University Devotional address: "Charles Darwin and the Tree of Life: Some Assembly Required": transcript and video.

(2) The official BYU Evolution Packet

Instead, he favors "divine design," sometimes called "intelligent design," which "doesn't preach religion," he said. "The only people who will be upset about this are atheists."

ROANOKE, Va. - For 15 years, in defiance of a Supreme Court ruling, Larry Booher taught creationism in his high school biology class. He even compiled a textbook of sorts and passed out copies in three-ring binders. ADVERTISEMENT The school superintendent didn't know what was going on. Neither did the school board president. Then, they got an anonymous tip. Booher has agreed to revise his lesson plan, though he maintained that he handed out the book, titled "Creation Battles Evolution," to his Biology 2 students only as a voluntary, extra-credit option. "He told the students, 'You may read this. You don't have to. It has some Bible references in it,'" said Alan Lee, superintendent of Washington County schools. "This teacher felt like he wasn't doing anything wrong." ...

Instead, he favors "divine design," sometimes called "intelligent design," which "doesn't preach religion," he said. "The only people who will be upset about this are atheists."

He didn't feel like he was doing anything wrong, so he hid his activities from his superiors. Uh huh.