PT commenter Lenny Flank often asks for IDists to present an actual theory of intelligent design. Well Lenny, an exclusive commentary was just posted by Kelly Hollowell (see her website, ScienceMinistries.org) on WorldNet Daily entitled, “Mechanism behind intelligent design uncovered?”
Few e-mails have ever stopped me as cold as the one I am about to describe. In it, the author, a former university professor who wishes to remain anonymous, claims to know the actual mechanism behind intelligent design. That is the mechanism by which God created the universe, our world and all biological life within it.Kelly Hollowell, “Mechanism behind intelligent design uncovered?“
With an intro like that, you know it has to be good. Read it here.
70 Comments
steve · 18 June 2005
If I had a 10-year-old as gullible as Hollowell, I'd be ashamed.
Jeff S · 18 June 2005
Yeah, that was my idea -- figure out a theory that explains the entire universe and the origin of life, and submit it anonymously via email to a quack pseudo-journalist. Damn ! Now I've got to come up with a better idea.
steve · 18 June 2005
That's not even as good as the typical raving crank's M.O: Write up the Revolutionary Manifesto, USPS mail it to various science professors, and never hear back from them.
(as an aside, this happens so much, that one thermo professor I had, suspected that the NCSU physics dept was rerouting all the cranks his way. Sadly, they weren't.)
Nick (Matzke) · 18 June 2005
The "mechanism of ID" article by "anonymous" may be an attempt to create a parody on two levels -- first, patch together a revolutionary "scientific mechanism of ID" by stringing together technical terms and God-talk. Second, the anonymous article, while claiming to overturn evolution, remains very vague, and may simply be proposing nothing more than physics and chemistry as God's vaunted "mechanism." I think that everyday interactions between atoms are supposed to basically involve electromagnetic forces, i.e. the electron shells of atoms interacting with each other. It's hard to tell if this is what is actually meant in the hoax, with all of the obscuring gibberish, but anonymous's hoax article may have two levels.
TonyB · 18 June 2005
I cast my vote with yours: The message is a hoax, a prank, and Kelly Hollowell, J.D., Ph.D., was taken in by it (despite being a savvy molecular biologist knows that "Darwin's theory is unworkable").
Say, does anyone know what Alan Sokal is up to these days?
scott · 18 June 2005
Gadzooks! Don't go out in the sun or you run the risk of having your DNA complexified by its EMF powers!
steve · 18 June 2005
We already have the mechanism of ID. Behe said it was a magic puff of smoke. Dembski later commented that ID lacks a certain level of detail, but what the hay.
Jeff S · 18 June 2005
Jason Meyers · 18 June 2005
Bryson Brown · 18 June 2005
How bad does pseudo-science have to be for this 'molecular biologist' (say it ain't so) to detect it?
STR has nothing to do with quanum mechanics' wave-particle duality (the earlier claim that everyone should be familiar with the basics of these theories adds a nice touch of irony). How do people manage to get through life without functioning BS detectors?
'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank · 18 June 2005
Thrifty Gene · 18 June 2005
Ed Braun · 18 June 2005
I'm with Nick on the assertion that this might be a parody with two levels. After all, chemistry is utimately driven by the electromagnetic force. Since mutation is a chemical process, we all owe our evolutionary legacy to the electromagnetic force (plus the sieve of natural selection...)
I don't know what an "increased complexity of the relationships among existing nucleotides" means. It doesn't seem right that it would an allusion to mutual information, although the increased number of repeats would generate more nucleotides that share mutual information with other nucleotides I wouldn't think that would be increased complexity by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe it is an allusion to an increase in the proportion of alternatively spliced exons in vertebrates.
Alternatively, it could be sort of like the broken clock that is correct twice a day. Throw out enough random scientific terms purporting to confirm some pseudoscientific nonsense and it might tend to sound like a good parody...
harold · 18 June 2005
When you get right down to it, this is one bizarre piece of nonsense.
The jist of it is that statement that the emf, rather than mutation, is the exclusive cause of imperfect replicatin of DNA.
That's not even a creationist argument, since there's nothing supernatural about the emf.
"Mutation" is a blanket term for changes in DNA sequence/imperfect DNA replication. All the natural forces that are involved in the complex biochemistry of DNA are in some way related to "mutation". An irrational and trivially disprovable statement that only one natural force is involved is actually a nonsensical but "methodologically materialist" claim. And then there's...
"This explains how a human has only double the number of genes as a fruit fly. The amount of DNA didn't need to proportionately increase with human complexity; rather complexity of the relationships among existing nucleotides needed to increase."
Can anyone explain to me how we measure the "complexity of the relationships AMONG nucleotides"? Or even what that is? How do we measure the "complexity" of a species for that matter? How do we know how much more "complex" humans are - or even if, granting that they're far larger and apparently more "intelligent", that they are more "complex"? It doesn't really matter, but these people seem to think that any statement, however ludicrous, is made valid with the use of the word "complexity".
What's depressing is that this woman has a PhD in "molecular and cellular pharmacology" from the University of Miami, and has worked as a forensic toxicologist. At some level she must be aware, or have been aware once in her life, of enough basic science to understand that what she's written is garbage (even if you want to be very disdainful of the UM pharmacology department, and that's not my intent, that virtually has to be true).
Her law degree is from - surprise! - Regent University. I guess Liberty University must have wait-listed her.
There's nothing "Christian" about touting degrees and then posting nonsense to trick vulnerable people. Her only possible moral defense is mental defect - either inability to see that it's nonsense, despite her education, or inability to understand that dishonesty is wrong.
Jeremy Mohn · 18 June 2005
Was that quote from Linda Holloway or Kelly Hollowell?
It seems that you might be confusing the names of two different pseudoscience advocates.
Arden Chatfield · 18 June 2005
Nick (Matzke) · 18 June 2005
Oops, fixed it. Linda Holloway must reside close to Kelly Hollowell in the neuron firing patterns...
Mike Walker · 18 June 2005
scienceministries.com used to be affiliated with a network of Christian websites (I can't remember the name, unfortunately), so it, in itself, is not a spoof site.
I used to pop in from time-to-time since the nonsense Hollowell wrote could be quite entertaining, but she started recycling a lot of her old stuff with very little new material so I stopped visiting.
I'm not at all surprised she's been taken in by a hoax. She has a very credulous m.o. and will publish stories on just about any creationist nonsense that comes along.
Steven Thomas Smith · 18 June 2005
a maine yankee · 18 June 2005
While searching in ancient tomes for words of wisdom, I discovered the following "truth" regarding origins of stuff. Makes sense in a Dutch sort of way.
En de goddelijke ontwerper richtte haar vinger en scheid gelopen af.
Adrian Griffis · 18 June 2005
This parody idea is rather intriguing. Why can't we cook up something that sounds like an explaination of "the mechanisms behind intelligent design", but is essentially Evolutionary Theory. We could throw in lots of theological sounding terms, and appear on the surface to be hostile to some nebulous Theory of Evolution. The Creationists have never bother to learn about Evolutionary Theory, so all we'd have to do is say we doubt this theory called "Evolution", and then we could dress the real details of Evolutionary Theory up in theological terms and announce that this is our explanations of the mechanisms behind Intelligent Design.
The Creationists have always been about mindlessly taking sides, without ever learning about the issues. I'm thinking they might not be able to resist jumping on the band wagon until long after we've gotten a good laugh about their foolishness.
Adrian
Bill · 18 June 2005
I think Dr. Anonymous makes some valid points which I will summarize here. So, pay attention.
The good doctor's lesson regarding EMF Complexity, boys and girls, is simply this:
Wear sunscreen.
It's that simple.
Do you realize that during the summer months the chance of getting hit by a rogue photon is nearly One Hundred Percent? Yes! You could be outside minding your own business when out of the blue - WHAM! - you're smacked by a photon traveling many thousands of miles per hour. So fast you can't even see 'em coming.
Remember: wear sunscreen. (p.s. a hat helps, too.)
Mike Walker · 18 June 2005
So, reading the e-mail, and assuming "Mr. Former Universite Professor" is in earnest we can replace goddidit with lightdidit or perhaps goddiditwithlight.
And that helps ID theory... how?
Jeff S · 18 June 2005
Okay, given that the email is a bunch of crap, I thought I'd just point out a few specific craplets from the point of view of a (partially informed) physicist :
1) The Big Bang did not come from a "single focal point of light". It is not easy to visualise, but it disstinctly was not an occurence at one point in space; space itself sort of unfolded, but there was mass/energy distributed throughout.
2) I don't think it is correct to refer to "light" at the very early moments of the Big Bang. At extrmemly high energies, all of the fundamental interactions (electromagnetic, weak, and strong) were coupled; my understanding is that the interaction between particles at that enery are carried by bosons which are a quantum superposition of the various field bosons : photon, W+-, Z0, and gluons. (i.e., there was not light, but rather a tangled mess of energy.)
3) When protons and neutrons combine (in stellar interiors) to form the heavier elements, it is very specifically not the electromagnetic interaction (light) which binds them together. Protons are positively charged, and neutrons are neutral. The electromagnetic interaction is strictly repulsive, tending to prevent formation of any nuclei (except perhaps, heavy hydrogen.) What binds the nuclei together is the strong force, of which the author seems blissfully unaware.
4) The term EMF has absolutely nothing at all to do with any of this. It is a rather unfortunate archaic term that found its way into undergraduate textbooks to describe batteries, generators, etc. that can maintain a voltage difference even when a current flows. Signs that the author saw an intro physics book at some point in life, and didn't understand much of it.
5) Atoms do exchange photons when changing their internal states; hey, there's a correct statement in there after all ! Oops, it's asolutely in no way relevant to the argument about how elements formed....
6) Light has absolutely nothing to do with a "Non--physical, spiritual world" (suprise!) In a garbled way, it is mentioned that photons have no mass, hence are non-physical. What the hell is non-physical ? The behavior of photons is extremely well described by deterministic equations; their interaction with matter is one of the best-tested, most precisely predictable aspects of modern physics. If you're lookin' for a gap, you'd better just move along, nothin' to see here...
6.5) BTW, when photons are acting in their role as carriers of the electromagnetic force, say in the repulsion between two protons, they are called "virtual photons"; in this case, they do have a mass. Kind of a shame to spoil an otherwise beautiful theory....
7) As was mentioned, Special Relativity has absolutely nothing to do with photons, as "should be known to all" with a "modern education".
8) "...through logic, extrapolation and preliminary scientific findings, we may fairly hypothesize that the same method of applying EMF/light is used as in the earlier stages of progressive development." Here we begin making the transistion from physics crap to biology crap, and I actually had kind of a biology-related question : What's the best way to clean up puke?
carey allen · 18 June 2005
Gosh, I spent all those years studying physics and astrophysics, and I could have saved myself a lot of time by simply reading some interesting stories passed down by a bunch of shepherds. It is mind-numbingly sad that anyone who claims a J.D. and a Ph.D. could be taken in by such tripe. Clearly the state of science education in the U.S. is deplorable, and I expect it will only get worse if religious fundamentalists are allowed to force their anti-intellectual agenda upon this nation.
Shirley Knott · 18 June 2005
May not count as the "best" way, but it would be tempting to suggest:
print this crap on paper towels and wipe up any puke therewith...
Now were the writing not so faux-erudite, we might suspect Charlie, but perhaps this output comes from the bastard offspring of CW, JD, and JH?
hugs,
Shirley
darwinfinch · 18 June 2005
Wouldn't it be nice to believe this women actually cared one whit whether or not this, or any of her other "iD-ers," actually described the Universe around her? Or, indeed, about anything NOT herself?
What awful people these have made themselves into! This sort of women is capable of justifying any lie, and would, given the power, justify any crime that flattered her vanity.
moioci · 18 June 2005
While searching the archives of a German university late one night, I found that someone had already identified the mechanism of ID:
Wenn ist das Nunstruck git und Slotermeyer? Ja!...
Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
Stuart Weinstein · 18 June 2005
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Any sufficiently advanced parody is indistinguishable from creationism.
LackOfDiscipline · 18 June 2005
Are they kidding with this crap? The "proposed mechanism" for ID sounds to me like the ruminations of a lazy 14 year old pothead who suddenly "saw the light" literally, got religion, and started leafing through an outdated, second-rate high school physics text for remedial students.
Arden Chatfield · 18 June 2005
Henry J · 18 June 2005
Re "The mechanism behind intelligent design is wishful thinking."
Wishful thinking? Near as I can tell, all the things that we knop to be deliberately engineered are either tools or toys for something else (us or sometimes animals), used for a while and discarded when they cease to be useful or amusing. Why would somebody wish to be a tool or a toy for something else? I don't get it.
--
Re "figure out a theory that explains the entire universe and the origin of life"
42.
--
Henry
Virge · 18 June 2005
Jim Harrison · 18 June 2005
In the Middle Ages certain Franciscans evolved what is sometimes called light metaphyics, the notion that light mediates between the natural and supernatural world. No doubt all those friars had read Fiat Lux in the Vulgate. It's a kick to see the notion resurface all these years later.
mark · 18 June 2005
Ed Braun · 18 June 2005
I dig the paper bag idea. The ID folks could get ol' anonymous to come out with a paper bag just like the unknown comic on the old Gong Show - he will be the "Unknown Creationist!", Ph.D (from somewhere)
I have to admit that I didn't catch the confusion between quantum mechanics and relativity. But it has inspired me to propose my own mechanistic hypothesis of ID. Here goes:
When the intelligent designer (God perhaps?) initiated the universe there was no light, because the forces were unified. The universe was profoundly symmetric, but this was an unstable state and the designer set up the universe to greatly increase in size during a short period before the symmetric aspects of the universe and the forces mediating interactions. This allowed the designer to increase tiny fluctuations "engraved" upon the to sufficient size to seed the development of complex structures.
The designed framework for the universe does not stop there. The peculiar and highly specific set of interactions among the elements C, N, O, S, P that the stars were designed to produce in relatively large amounts, when present in the background of hydrogen and helium that were produced in the initial phase of the universes design, are capable of generating a complex set of molecules. Very large stars were designed to generate and spread trace amounts of much heavier molecules that the designer would use for specific catalytic activities necessary for life.
Even more complex intracelluar machines were generated by the designer by reuse of molecular components, such that the same basic chemical compounds could be arranges in many different ways. The polymeric components were designed to be readily duplicated by the combined actions of environmental forces and the activities of polymerases. All life can be thought of as being embedded in a complex intricately designed non-material surface in a space of much higher dimensionality. The position on this surface has the peculiar property of determining the number of viable and reporductively competent progeny that their own progeny will have. It is the position of organisms on this non-material surface, combined with changes in the set of genetic polymers that the intelligent designmer used to produce novel molecular machines.
I know it need more pseudo-theological terms, but maybe it could be used as a competing mechanistic hypothesis of ID!
Rich · 18 June 2005
qetzal · 18 June 2005
According to AiG, Hollowell has a Ph.D. in 'Molecular and Cellular Pharmacology' from U. of Miami, with a doctoral thesis on 'DNA Technology, Cloning, Analysis.'
And she thinks "EMF causing and creating ever-increasing complex relationships between the nucleotides along the DNA strand" is plausible?
She must have done a LOT of after hours 'pharmacology' in college....
Dave Cerutti · 18 June 2005
Ummm, another interesting thing that Kelly' posted before (and didn't place a "this could be a hoax" disclaimer in front of) came from our friend Kent Hovind. I can't provide a direct URL, so go to www.scienceministries.org, search for "creationism Hovind" and you'll get it.
Les Lane · 18 June 2005
This is the argument from authority. Typical wingnut readers will apply the adjective "Christian" to authority. We'll apply other adjectives ("bogus" comes to mind).
Arun Gupta · 18 June 2005
Also, want to point out that key features of chemistry arise not from electrodynamics, but the fact that electrons obey the Pauli exclusion principle. Jeff S. has said all the rest that needs saying about the physics involved.
Perhaps one can postulate that ID derives sustenance from the failure of science education in public schools?
Steve 530 · 18 June 2005
Re: www.scienceministries.org -- It's not a hoax site, at least in the sense that's been suggested. According to Name.Space, it's registerd to a renowned patent attorney and scientist:
Domain ID:D38450339-LROR
Domain Name:SCIENCEMINISTRIES.ORG
Created On:25-Oct-2000 02:27:44 UTC
Last Updated On:27-Sep-2004 20:41:35 UTC
Expiration Date:25-Oct-2006 02:27:44 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Register.com Inc. (R71-LROR)
Status:OK
Registrant ID:C11998505-RCOM
Registrant Name:Kelly Hollowell
Registrant Organization:Science Ministries
Registrant Street1:805 Gas Light Lane
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Virginia Beach
Registrant State/Province:Va
Registrant Postal Code:23462
Registrant Country:US
Doesn't mean the email wasn't a hoax, of course ...
steve · 18 June 2005
JohnK · 18 June 2005
On the 700 Club site, Hollowell plumps for mandatory young earthism, recommending Ken Ham's The Great Dinosaur Mystery Solved.
http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/churchandministry/evangelism/evolution_the_ultimate_compromise.asp
Anyone know Pat Robertson and Regent University's official position? Or does Robertson stay coy?
Mike · 18 June 2005
You folks should read the original letter (http://tinyurl.com/ddo2g) and compare it to what she wrote. Its a fascinating look into the inner workings of the creationist mind. She hadn't "excerpted and edited" in any way that you or I would understand. "Loosely based on" may be more appropriate. There is one small paragraph related to evolution, and beneath the bombast it could be interpretted as saying that UV induces mutations. Nothing about "complex relationships between the nucleotides", or Drosophila DNA. In fact, it sounds like a version of theistic evolution that might come from a retired scientist suffering from a touch of dementia. What exactly is going on here? Who is hoaxing who?
Albion · 18 June 2005
Rich · 19 June 2005
Quack Quack Quack. A fine looking woman, though. On the outside.
*hides in EMF proof shelter*
Koowan · 19 June 2005
Why, oh why must the pretty ones be so stupid?
SEF · 19 June 2005
snaxalotl · 19 June 2005
so, god doesn't manipulate matter with some unexplained magical force. He pushes matter around with EMF, although as he is not physically present in the ordinary natural sense he would of course be using some magical unexplained force to effect changes in EMF. brilliant. more than brilliant. it's like one one those AHAA moments stoned people get.
she's either mad, or makes a tidy living being revered as a rare scientific authority by other fundies.
especially interesting is that Anonymous only proposes that god makes judicious DNA changes with photons, yet somehow Holloway seems to think that an additional effect is required to explain the complex phenotype produced by human DNA. Naturally this involves persistent EMF leaping around the genome infusing the whole process with more goddy magic. So: is there some brand of cereal with Phds on the box now, or was the Phd just in the box she bought?
Cal Preston · 19 June 2005
SEF · 19 June 2005
Did you really address it to yourself?
Kay · 19 June 2005
My comment on that great parody...
Dear Creationists:
YHBT. YHL. HAND.
Now please STFU.
kthxbye!
(yeah, i know, i know...)
My other brain is a 486 · 19 June 2005
Misunderstandings of cosmology is not a good foundation to build a "theory," now is it?
Jon Rowe · 19 June 2005
Roy Masters wrote an entire book about this called "Finding God in Physics."
Check out my most recent post to learn about Masters. I think that the email might originate in a Masters follower.
melior · 19 June 2005
I am perplexed that she claims to consider Darwin's work to be a "fantastic breakthrough".
Now, I admit the original e-mail has all the makings of a possible hoax. On the other hand, it could possibly produce one of the most fantastic breakthroughs in scientific theory since Darwin.
Sprengt · 19 June 2005
I've been thinking about this ID-crap and especially its lack of experiments and contribution to science. This is, ID is just "if evolution is wrong then ID is right by default". And let's not kid ourselves, replace ID with "God".
But, for the sake of an argument, any experiment verifying ID would be the GAME OVER for supernatural God. This is a bit ironical; if you succeed with changing DNA with light, then you also have proven that God is not supernatural.
Steven Laskoske · 19 June 2005
Rich · 19 June 2005
Here's Kelly Hollowells email:
khollowell@worldnetdaily.com
Its not fair to snipe or infer without giving her the right of reply. I'm sure she could add some much need depth to this discussion. Maybe one of the admins could invite her? Let's not make it a witch hunt - they are after all supernatural and beyond the realms of science to understand.
Henry J · 19 June 2005
Re "Wenn ist das Nunstruck git und Slotermeyer? Ja!...
Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput! "
Well, does anybody have a translation for that? My attempt at translating by looking up the words in a German to English dictionary went nowhere.
Henry
Aureola Nominee · 19 June 2005
Not a translation, but the origin...
http://www.jumpstation.ca/recroom/comedy/python/joke.html
Chris Lawson · 19 June 2005
Re: "Wenn ist das Nunstruck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! . . .
Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!"
Have none of you heard of Babelfish? If you plug in that quote and have it translated from German into English, you get this:
"If the Nunstruck is git and Slotermeyer? !... Beiherhund the or the Flipperwaldt gersput."
See? Perfectly clear now.
Apesnake · 19 June 2005
seeing is believing · 20 June 2005
You all sneer. This 'anonymous' scientist is not the only bona-fide scientist to be investigating this. Read here: http://sciencethefuture.blogspot.com/
Andrea Bottaro · 20 June 2005
Stuart Weinstein · 20 June 2005
Why, oh why must the pretty ones be so stupid?
Beauty x Brains = Constant
(Just kidding.. don't get sore at me..)
Dave Cerutti · 20 June 2005
Jim Ryan · 20 June 2005
...and airplanes have those wheels on their landing gear to drive on those invisible air highways that keep 'em aloft. And the reason they retract the landing gear on takeoff is that when you're going UP, you have to ride the upside down air roads that run through the plane's undercarriage.
Timothy Scriven · 22 June 2005
She is called hollowell because her heads hollow.
Richard · 22 June 2005
I don't know. I'd like to think it's a parody, but probably not. Whatever it is, even Dr. Seuss' "Horton Hears a Who!" makes more sense than this crap does.