Kitzmiller decision coming tomorrow

Thanks Nick

I'm sure I speak for everyone in thanking you for the time and effort you (and others) have put in. Fingers crossed.

Yeah, thanks Nick. Excellent work all in that case.

Any bets on to how many minutes afterward (regardless the outcome) the Discovery Institute will issue a triumphant press release?

Any bets on to how many minutes afterward (regardless the outcome) the Discovery Institute will issue a triumphant press release?

Anyone up for a 'Parody DI press release' competition?

If anyone is feeling anxiety, don't. The fact that the judge is clearly aware of the importance of the issue, allowed us...

I'll give it a try:

"ACLU Wins Case Restricting Religion in Dover

DI- Just in time for Christmas, the ACLU has won a mojor battle in it's ongoing war against Christians. Today in Dover, PA, Judge Jones has overstepped the scope of the Kitzmiller trial to call the scientific theory of 'Intelligent Design' a "religous ideology ungrounded in either scientific fact or method". Instead of addressing the case directly, whether school boards can set curriculae and give equal time to all scientific theories, Judge Jones overstepped his authority in an attempt to restrict the education of our nation's children. Due to the replacement of the school board with people sympathetice to the ACLU and their agenda, the ruling will not be appealed. The Discovery Institute will focus its efforts to improving the education of our children as the scientific support for Intelligent Design continues to increase."

Or alternately:

"Kitzwho?"

DI press release

Judge Jones decision in the Kitzmiller vs. Dover case is a clear victory for our side in the long fight to have Intelligent Design recognized as a viable alternative to evolution in the American Public School system. The judge's description of ID as 'Creationism in a cheap tuxedo' clearly differentiates between the modern scientific theory of ID, and creationism, which is more naked and therefore quite different.

The judge clearly recognized ID's incorporation of modern technological and mathematical ideas when he described 'Panda's Thumb' as 'a creationist text run through a find/replace algorithm', while his description of Michael Behe's pursuit of the idea of 'Irreducible Complexity' as 'completely impervious to contrary evidence' is a well-deserved tribute to Professor Behe's doggedness and determination. Equally flattering is his description of defense expert's Steve Fuller's efficient communication skills: he is indeed 'comprehensible only when slowed down to quarter speed'! And Judge Jones paid eloquent tribute to the Dover School Board's open-mindedness when he called them 'apparently incapable of distinguishing truth from fiction'.

We welcome the permanent injunction against mentioning 'Intelligent Design' within 1000 feet of school grounds as an opportunity to further develop the new theory of 'sudden emergence', which is not like ID at all, oh no! And the estimated costs award of $1.7 m against the Dover School District will undoubtedly simplify many future decisions on funding new school facilities.

After the Dover decision, the demise of Darwinism is imminent!

Has it ever been any more clear that the crumbling Darwinian orthodoxy has abandoned all claim to scientific superiority? For far from pursuing their extremist anti-religious agenda in the laboratory, the defenders of the faith must now rely upon rank judicial activism to preserve their academic hegemony. The children of the Dover Area School District are the true losers today: the message from the bench is clear. Your freedom to learn in school what your parents believe is meaningless, as it conflicts with atheists' sacred right to worship in the halls of your institutions.

The Dishonesty, I mean Discovery Institute will no doubt say "we tried to discourage the Dover school board from teaching Intelligent Design Creationism but they did not listen" while overlooking their own vice peresident publishes a legal guide for school boards and teachers to use for teaching ID in the public classroom. I'm sure they will add more nonsense about teachers are not yet ready to teach IDC and the curriculum has yet to be designed

Regardless of the outcome the DI press release should be a rib tickler. As will Dempski's and Behe's apologetic. Two make believe scientists who will no doubt cry their recycled creationism as a "scientific theory" has been persecuted once again.

I cannot wait!

As someone who found Fitzmas a bit of a disappointment, does this mean I should be hanging my stockings for Kitzmas?

Fitzmas is a season.

In the recent trial, a lawyer grilled an intelligent design proponent on why a textbook the witness helped to write substituted "intelligent design" for "creationism" in a later edition and with "sudden emergence theory" in a draft of a future edition. "We won't be back in a couple of years for the sudden emergence trial, will we?" the lawyer asked. To which Judge Jones interjected, "Not on my docket."

oooh, CJ, I think you nailed the gist of what their argument will be quite nicely. However, it might be a bit more eloquent than what the typical DI reader is used to. I think it will play just about right for Dembski. You should send it to him via email so he can save some work and just post your bit verbatim.

;P

I have little doubt that the intelligent design/creationism crowd will continue to introduce bills into legislatures at the state and federal levels in an attempt to change the laws, even if this decision goes against them.

This is not really a religious issue at its core; it is socio/political, and in their minds, it determines who gets to be the masters of us all. People with these kinds of drives are not stopped by laws or by the fact that the majority of opinion is against them. Since they can't fool the scientific community, they will continue to go after soft targets just as all charlatans have done throughout history. It remains important that dedicated folks at PT, the National Center for Science Education, and all professional scientific organizations continue to track these crackpots with a microscope. Eternal vigilance is still the cliché of the day.

It remains important that dedicated folks at PT, the National Center for Science Education, and all professional scientific organizations continue to track these crackpots with a microscope. Eternal vigilance is still the cliché of the day.

— Mike Elzinga

*** D*MBSKI REMINDER ***

Incase you forgot, Bill "I infer from the probabilities" made predictions based on his field of, erm, expertise:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/371

"As I see it, there are three possible outcomes:

1. The Dover policy, in which students are informed that the ID textbook Of Pandas and People is in their library, is upheld.
2. The Dover policy is overturned but the scientific status of ID is left unchallenged.
3. The Dover policy is not only overturned but ID is ruled as nonscientific.

For what it's worth, my subjective probabilities are that outcome 1. has about a 20% probability, outcome 2. has about an 70% probability, and outcome 3. has less than a 10% probability. (Part of what prompts these numbers is that the ACLU is completely outmanning the Thomas More Law Center, which is defending the Dover policy. When I was an expert witness in the case, TMLC had one full-time person on the case and two or three part-timers. The ACLU, by contrast, had at least twelve full-timers on the case.)"

So, that's P (The Dover policy is not only overturned but ID is ruled as nonscientific) < 10%.

Agreed but... when did these guys get microscopes? Are you sure they didn't just tape some toilet paper tubes to a toaster?

Part of what prompts these numbers is that the ACLU is completely outmanning the Thomas More Law Center, which is defending the Dover policy.

as Tiax alluded to, it's really that the ACLU consists mostly of the intelligent, educated segment of the culture, which will beat out the ignoramuses working for the TMLC every time. In this case, however, I think an elementary school student could have bested the TMLC given the repsective strength of evidence presented.

that mummert quote is going to be written on the tombstone of ID, just you wait and see >:)

I also want to see evopeach's explanation of how he predicted a loss at Dover all along

... is not really a religious issue at its core; it is socio/political, and in their minds, it determines who gets to be the masters of us all.

sir_toejam:
"In this case, however, I think an elementary school student could have bested the TMLC given the repsective strength of evidence presented."

Yes, but an elementary student could not have done the absolutely wonderful job that the ACLU's team did in preparing for this case. It was this hard work that makes the case appear to be a slam dunk. A poor legal team could have botched this case just as badly as the TMLC did. Let's give credit where credit is due.

The decision is out (it's 10:45 EST). It's on the district court website which I accessed through the NCSE website. I have no linking skills, so i'll sum up. It is a complete victory for the plaintiffs complete with very harsh language from the judge directed at all the bad guys.

CBS News Legal Analyst Andrew Cohen says the principals in this case are not the only ones waiting for the judge's decision. "A trial court ruling is never binding on any other court but you can bet that every other judge who has to face this dispute over intelligent design will pore over this ruling for clues about how to rule," says Cohen. "I expect an appeal here no matter which side prevails, which means I expect this legal fight to continue for at least a year or so. What I don't expect is for the U.S. Supreme Court to get involved."

"So, that's P (The Dover policy is not only overturned but ID is ruled as nonscientific) 10%."

shall we start calling ourselves the Ten percenters?

For posterity:
I nailed the "activist judge" thing.
What do I win?
(I'd accept a leatherbound copy of the ruling)

@shenda:

of course you are correct; I was oversimplifying for effect.

@CJ:

I knew you had the winner! congrats. As to the leatherbound ruling, that's not a bad idea, but we being but poor science slobs, I think PT should maybe just settle for printed copies. In fact, it wouldn't be a bad idea for PT to get a few dozen printed copies of the ruling to give out as perks.

I'll do my celebrating here, as the site is getting pretty slow due to all the increased traffic today...

er,

WOOT!

Indeed, WOOT.

Cheers, my friends, it is a happy day.

And everybody remember Judge Jones in your, er-- prayers?

He has done the right thing, and it would have been easier to dodge the issue.