The Panda's Thumb Legacy Archive — pandasthumb.net

No travel for evangelist, judge says

Posted 28 July 2006 by Nick Matzke

The latest on Dr. Dino:

Tax evasion suspect is flight risk, ruling states Michael Stewart @PensacolaNewsJournal.com Pensacola evangelist and tax protester Kent Hovind won't be lecturing on creationism in South Africa next month, prompting an irate letter from a sponsor of the trip to the prosecutor. U.S. District Judge Casey Rodgers this week denied Hovind's motion to lift travel restrictions pending his Sept. 5 trial on 58 federal charges that include evading nearly $470,000 in employee taxes. Hovind, who calls himself "Dr. Dino," operates Dinosaur Adventure Land, a theme park on North Palafox Street dedicated to creationism. He believes evolution is a religion and says man did not evolve from dinosaurs but, rather, lived alongside them. At Hovind's first federal court appearance July 13, U.S. Magistrate Judge Miles Davis agreed with prosecutors that Hovind posed a flight risk. Hovind was ordered to surrender his passport his travel was restricted to the local judicial district, stretching from Pensacola to Gainesville. Hovind's public defender countered with a motion contending travel restrictions violated his client's constitutional rights to religious freedom. Rodgers disagreed, pointing to U.S. Supreme Court decisions saying neutral restrictions that incidentally burden religious practices are not unconstitutional. Hovind was scheduled to travel to seven South African cities between Aug. 12 and Aug. 21 to debate scientists.

Note that the next bit is probably confused, because this news story from a few months back says that they teach evolution in South Africa.

In an e-mail to a reporter, Andre L. Immelman, CEO of PowerMinistries, the South African group sponsoring Hovind's trip, said South Africans "do not react very nicely to disappointment" and ministry members "will be seeking asylum in the U.S." if his trip is canceled. In a letter to Assistant U.S. Attorney Michelle Heldmeyer, Immelman wrote that 21 people have been involved during the past nine months in planning for Hovind to travel to South Africa. He said Hovind was scheduled to speak on 26 separate occasions to more than 18,000 people. "In what has been a very controversial decision here, our new democratic government is poised to introduce evolution into the public school system in the stead of creation after some 47 years of creationism practice," Immelman wrote. "To say that this debate has sharply served to divide the country is really no understatement at all."

Somehow I doubt there will be riots in the streets of South Africa just because Dr. Dino is ruled to be a flight risk.

74 Comments

Randall · 28 July 2006

I like the false dichotomy of "[Hovind] says man did not evolve from dinosaurs but, rather, lived alongside them." Last I checked, neither are true; we evolved from rodent-like things which lived alongside dinosaurs. But since Hovind himself probably couldn't understand that there's a difference between the two, I won't fault the article.

Siamang · 28 July 2006

Hmmmm.... I don't believe that man evolved from dinosaurs either.

Siamang · 28 July 2006

JINX!

You owe me a coke, Randall!

Skip Evans · 28 July 2006

"Somehow I doubt there will be riots in the streets of South Africa just because Dr. Dino is ruled to be a flight risk."

Don't be so sure. At the events I've seen Hovind speak, woman in the front row screamed atnd tossed bras and panties at him.

Oh, God, my attempt at humor just made me ill.

njm · 28 July 2006

He believes evolution is a religion and says man did not evolve from dinosaurs but, rather, lived alongside them.

Yeah, that probably is a mistaken summary of something confusing that Hovind said at some point.

Henry J · 28 July 2006

Flight risk? Does that mean if he leaves the country he might not come back? What's wrong with that? ;)

Henry

Rev. BigDumbCHimp · 28 July 2006

In an e-mail to a reporter, Andre L. Immelman, CEO of PowerMinistries, the South African group sponsoring Hovind's trip, said South Africans "do not react very nicely to disappointment" and ministry members "will be seeking asylum in the U.S." if his trip is canceled.
Are they really suggesting that the people who promoted his appearances in S.A. would be in physical danger if he isn't allowed to appear? That seems pretty ridiculous attempt at moral blackmail to me. Maybe they shouldn't have gotten involved with such an obvious huckster if that's the case (which it most surely is not).

AfricanBiohazard · 28 July 2006

Under the previous Nationalist rule during the days of Apartheid (pre 1994), S.African education system underplayed evolution in line with Calvanist doctrine. Today, the teaching of evolution is part of the biology syllabus and there is certainly a lot of governmental support. This is highlifhted, for example, by the recent opening of the Maropeng museum near the Sterkfontein Caves (UNESCO World Heritage Site), where many homid fossils were discoverd.

Hovind's rhetoric is supported by a minority evangelist Christian opinion in S.Africa and I doubt his trip would have had any political impact.

Andy Groves · 28 July 2006

At Hovind's first federal court appearance July 13, U.S. Magistrate Judge Miles Davis agreed with prosecutors that Hovind posed a flight risk.

I can see the headline now:

"Ruling by Judge Miles Davis leave Dr. Dino Kind of Blue"

Rev. BigDumbChimp · 28 July 2006

"Ruling by Judge Miles Davis leave Dr. Dino Kind of Blue"
Yeah when I first read that the judge's name was Miles Davis and considering the subject matter I immediately had Freddy Freeloader playing in my head.

Daniel Morgan · 28 July 2006

Does anyone know how much the bond was set at to allow Hovind to walk free until trial, or whether one was set?

wamba · 28 July 2006

Hovind's public defender countered with a motion contending travel restrictions violated his client's constitutional rights to religious freedom.

*snicker*

"The church ministry and my wife and I obey all laws about taxes as far as I can tell, and that is what many lawyers and tax professional(s) who have examined our ministry have told me," he wrote.

I look forward to reading about the testimony of those professionals during the trial.

Bruce Thompson GQ · 28 July 2006

Dr. Dino's favorite publishing venue, the placemat, a highly respected journal found at many cafés. Unfortunately my last article was rejected for lack of black and white drawings that could be colored by children. The U.S. has an extradition treaty with South Africa
Article 6. Where extradition of a person is sought for an offence against a law relating to taxation, customs [*19] duties, exchange control, or other revenue matters, extradition may not be refused on the ground that the law of the Requested State does not impose the same kind of tax or duty or does not contain a tax, customs duty, or exchange regulation of the same kind as the law of the Requesting State.
With an appropriate bond, let Dr. Dino complain about persecution to South African audiences. Unless, he plans on disappearing into the back country he could be forced to return. Fleeing to neighboring countries is probably not a good idea since U.S. citizens are not held in high esteem. Delta Pi Gamma (Scientia et Fermentum)

Henry J · 28 July 2006

Re "Fleeing to neighboring countries is probably not a good idea since U.S. citizens are not held in high esteem."

But didn't he say he's not a US citizen?

Anonymous_Coward · 28 July 2006

I look forward to reading about the testimony of those professionals during the trial.

Must be his alumni friends from Patriot University.

Flight risk? Does that mean if he leaves the country he might not come back? What's wrong with that? ;)

That's kind of like if Sam Neill's character in Jurassic Park suggests that the dinosaurs leave the island freeing the island of the dinosaur threat.

C.E. Petit · 28 July 2006

I think the only true flight risk for Dr Dino is if he somehow evolves creates intelligently designs wings. (Or, I suppose, if he gets too near a very large trebuchet.) Or maybe he could just borrow some nascent feathers from Archeotpteryx…

In either case, I find it hard to believe that Dr Dino could manage to stay away from those adoring crowds. And the press coverage.

Arden Chatfield · 28 July 2006

U.S. District Judge Casey Rodgers this week denied Hovind's motion to lift travel restrictions pending his Sept. 5 trial on 58 federal charges that include evading nearly $470,000 in employee taxes.

So this essentially means he's forbidden from leaving the town of Bedrock. :-)

Bruce Thompson GQ · 28 July 2006

But didn't he say he's not a US citizen?
Good point. Let him try and explain the distinction to an angry mob with his American accent. Delta Pi Gamma (Scientia et Fermentum)

Timcol · 28 July 2006

Looks like Dr. D has made a post on his blog about the whole affair: http://www.cseblogs.com/ (it's mostly "wah, wah, wah!" but it is entertaining to read).

But there are some insights in his basic grasp of numbers. FIrstly, he says there are 3 charges, not 58. He also gripes that he didn't receive a $.37 letter from the IRS. I guess nobody has told him it now costs $.39 to post a letter, but then Dr. Dino seems a little loose with numbers...

waldteufel · 28 July 2006

Now then, if Kent had taken his medicine, just like his doctor prescribed, he wouldn't be in this situation.

Just a helpful reminder for Ken Ham, Casey Luskin, Michael Behe, Bill Dembski, . . . . . . . . . .

Arden Chatfield · 28 July 2006

Where does Hovind draw his support in South Africa? Are Hovind's followers there mostly Afrikaaners?

J-dog · 28 July 2006

Arden Chatfield; I believe that Hovind's supporters are a group of African Princes that deperately need your help. If you will supply them with your bank account information, they will be glad to share all the money that they and Hovind have with you, because they are so grateful to you for helping them! It's a true marriage made in heaven, and there are strinking similarities in how they operate. Mabe Dembski can call Homeland Security about it?

Steviepinhead · 28 July 2006

How can this wingnut be a "flight risk," when he doesn't even believe in the evolution of feathers?

Really, Kent, don't try it. Or at least talk to a dude named Daedalus first.

Henry J · 28 July 2006

"Wax on, wax off..."

Steviepinhead · 28 July 2006

Wiwaxia?

Or maybe that should be:

W
i
w
a
x
i
a
*
*
*
Splash!

(No Hovinds were hurt during this typographical exercise.)

Coin · 28 July 2006

Wow. That blog post Timcol links is hilarious. I almost made a post quoting the parts I thought were the funniest, but by the end I realized I would have wound up quoting nearly the whole darn thing.

stevaroni · 28 July 2006

The U.S. has an extradition treaty with South Africa
Does that mean they could force us to take him back?

Arden Chatfield · 28 July 2006

Does that mean they could force us to take him back?

Yes, as part of their 'catch-and-release' program.

stevaroni · 28 July 2006

Hovind was scheduled to travel to seven South African cities between Aug. 12 and Aug. 21 to debate scientists.
This "debate" thing of which they speak; were they just going to talk at each other, or was it the kind of venue where people actually expected Hovind to put some real evidence on the table? Hell, I'd pay to see that.
"In what has been a very controversial decision here, our new democratic government is poised to introduce evolution into the public school system in the stead of creation after some 47 years of creationism practice," Immelman wrote. "To say that this debate has sharply served to divide the country is really no understatement at all."
In other words, the government is poised to actually teach science in science class. Well, I can certainly see why we have to stop that foolishness immediately.

njm · 28 July 2006

Where does Hovind draw his support in South Africa? Are Hovind's followers there mostly Afrikaaners?

I did a study abroad in Namibia/South Africa in college, and back then the blacks and whites tended to be in more traditional Protestant denominations (Lutherans, Anglicans, etc., -- the Afrikaners are some highly derived version of Dutch Calvinist I think), and the "colored" population -- in southern Africa this is considered a distinct category and means mixed-race background -- was experiencing explosive growth in evangelical/charismatic groups, often from the USA. A colored family I stayed with for a week was a member of a charismatic sect that was big in Namibia but derived from some obscure American prophet from Indiana (his picture was on the wall) who was active back in the 1960s. Nick

jujuquisp · 28 July 2006

"COLORED" PEOPLE??!! Is this 1962??? Shame on you!!

steve s · 28 July 2006

You're joking, right juju? He's just describing the terms as they're used in South Africa.

steve s · 28 July 2006

btw juju, please email me at stevestory@gmail.com. It's about something else.

Coin · 28 July 2006

Is this 1962???

— jujuquisp
**Looks over news real quick** Actually I'm pretty sure it's 1953.

Steviepinhead · 28 July 2006

Nah, in 1953, a large number of our military personnel were bogged down on the Korean peninsula.

Uh, come to think of it...

Arden Chatfield · 28 July 2006

"COLORED" PEOPLE??!! Is this 1962??? Shame on you!!

As quaint as it sounds in North America, 'coloured' is a normal, nonpejorative term used for certain ethnic groups in South African English. It basically means people of mixed race. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloured

'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank · 28 July 2006

Hey Hovind, I bet being locked up in the pokey is also gonna restrict your, uh, "religious freedom".

(snicker) (giggle)

Of course, you'll still be able to preach to the inmates all you want. But I suspect your speaking fee will go down quite a bit there.

(snicker) (giggle)

Shaffer · 28 July 2006

This whole saga is just adorable!

It puts a warm, soothing feeling in my heart to see people who flaunt their breaking of the law, particularly charlatans like Hovind, made into someone's prison bitch. Makes me think that the system might actually work after all.

That's assuming he's convicted, of course, and, based on my (admittedly very limited) knowledge of the law, and my observation of the evidence that the IRS have to work with, should require that the prosecuting attorney have at least three functional brain cells.

AfricanBiohazard · 29 July 2006

The Afrikaaners, many of whom are deeply religious follow a conservative Calvanist Christianity. I'm not sure if they subscribe to YEC or OEC doctrine. The group inviting Hovind to South Africa is generally English evangelical with strong ties (politically and socially) to the US YEC evangelicals.

Here in South Africa, "Coloured" refers to people who are clearly of mixed race. It may appear odd that such racial distinctions were made, but the history of SA is both sad and interesting. Mainly because of Apartheid, Coloureds live in distinct communities and generally speak Afrikaans. There are both Muslim and Christian (Dutch Reformed) communities.

AfricanBiohazard · 29 July 2006

"Where does Hovind draw his support in South Africa? Are Hovind's followers there mostly Afrikaaners?"

The Afrikaaners, many of whom are deeply religious follow a conservative Calvanist Christianity. I'm not sure if they subscribe to YEC or OEC doctrine. The group inviting Hovind to South Africa is generally English evangelical with strong ties (politically and socially) to the US YEC evangelicals.

Here in South Africa, "Coloured" refers to people who are clearly of mixed race. It may appear odd that such racial distinctions were made, but the history of SA is both sad and interesting. Mainly because of Apartheid, Coloureds live in distinct communities and generally speak Afrikaans. There are both Muslim and Christian (Dutch Reformed) communities.

David Heddle · 29 July 2006

Not sure what you people are gloating about. Like PT, Hovind hated cosmological ID, and labeled its proponents as heretics. In that battle, you may have lost one of you most high-profile like-minded intellectual and philosophical soul mates. When he speaks on cosmological ID and its scientific/religious implications, he is virtually indistinguishable from Lenny Flank. Gosh, do you people not even recognize who your colleagues are?

the pro from dover · 29 July 2006

this goes to show that the biggest mistake you can make is not pay your taxes. look at al capone. this is what he went to prison for despite the raft of other crimes he no doubtedly committed. failure to render unto caesar. what would have happened if al had claimed he was only a citizen of heaven and not under the jurisdiction of the usa? j edgar hoover would have really gotten his panties in a bunch!

Mephisto · 29 July 2006

Not sure what you people are gloating about. Like PT, Hovind hated cosmological ID, and labeled its proponents as heretics. In that battle, you may have lost one of you most high-profile like-minded intellectual and philosophical soul mates. When he speaks on cosmological ID and its scientific/religious implications, he is virtually indistinguishable from Lenny Flank. Gosh, do you people not even recognize who your colleagues are?

— Heddle
Hovind isn't a "colleague." He only disputes ID because he's a YEC. He disputes the Big Bang occurred and thoroughly misrepresents it. You only disagree with him because you have a competing form of idiocy. You're both wrong.

Mephisto · 29 July 2006

Not sure what you people are gloating about. Like PT, Hovind hated cosmological ID, and labeled its proponents as heretics. In that battle, you may have lost one of you most high-profile like-minded intellectual and philosophical soul mates. When he speaks on cosmological ID and its scientific/religious implications, he is virtually indistinguishable from Lenny Flank. Gosh, do you people not even recognize who your colleagues are?

— Heddle
Hovind isn't a "colleague." He only disputes ID because he's a YEC. He disputes the Big Bang occurred and thoroughly misrepresents it. You only disagree with him because you have a competing form of idiocy. You're both wrong.

wamba · 29 July 2006

That's assuming he's convicted, of course,

I have the distinct impression, mostly from following the Kitzmiller trial, that judges don't like to be BSed. Given how Dr. Dino has behaved in court so far, I'm projecting this one to be a slam dunk, or a Waterloo. Cue up the ABBA.

doyle · 29 July 2006

From what I've read, part of the case should be straightforward - the failure to pay withholding taxes. This will have nothing to do with whether Hovind works for God or owns nothing, and won't require proof of income earned, etc. How many people work at Dinoland? What wages have they been paid? How much withholding has been paid to Uncle Sam? I've noticed that in the comments made so far, Hovind and his supporters never touch on this part of the case.

Mike · 29 July 2006

"[Hovind] says man did not evolve from dinosaurs but, rather, lived alongside them."

Hovind got that wrong too, and here's the evidence: http://www.thefeejeemermaid.com/manosaur2.htm

Corkscrew · 29 July 2006

Not sure what you people are gloating about. Like PT, Hovind hated cosmological ID, and labeled its proponents as heretics. In that battle, you may have lost one of you most high-profile like-minded intellectual and philosophical soul mates. When he speaks on cosmological ID and its scientific/religious implications, he is virtually indistinguishable from Lenny Flank. Gosh, do you people not even recognize who your colleagues are?

Funny you should say that. One of the key indicators I look for when figuring out how honest a group is is their willingness to complain about mistakes on the part of their allies as well as their enemies. The classic example is Chris Mooney of the Intersection, who has no compunctions about taking a cluebat to those who claim that Hurricane Katrina was caused by global warming.

Darth Robo · 29 July 2006

NNOOOOOO!!! No ABBA!! :-( Can't we play Led Zeppelin instead?

(p.s. Heddle, are you NUTS?)

harry · 29 July 2006

Not sure what you people are gloating about. Like PT, Hovind hated cosmological ID, and labeled its proponents as heretics. In that battle, you may have lost one of you most high-profile like-minded intellectual and philosophical soul mates. When he speaks on cosmological ID and its scientific/religious implications, he is virtually indistinguishable from Lenny Flank. Gosh, do you people not even recognize who your colleagues are?

— David Heddle
To paraphrase an arab proverb: The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.

Anonymous_Coward · 29 July 2006

Like PT, Hovind hated cosmological ID, and labeled its proponents as heretics. In that battle, you may have lost one of you most high-profile like-minded intellectual and philosophical soul mates.

Yes, because labelling people as heretics is a very good intellectual and philosophical argument. Don't agree with me? You're a freakin' heretic. I am now as great as the other philosophers like Kant, Voltaire, Russell, Popper ... Bow down to my wisdom. Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking repeatedly labels everyone as heretics. That's what got them their status in the scientific and general community. I've read SH's "A Brief History of Time". The most valuable knowledge I got from that book was when SH wrote: "For a brief history of time, y'all were heretics, biyatch!"

When he speaks on cosmological ID and its scientific/religious implications, he is virtually...

...a nutcase. And still continues to be.

Darth Robo · 29 July 2006

"I've read SH's "A Brief History of Time". The most valuable knowledge I got from that book was when SH wrote: "For a brief history of time, y'all were heretics, biyatch!" "

I'm gonna read it again. Must of missed that one! ;)

Ernest Hammingweight · 29 July 2006

"Flight risk? Does that mean if he leaves the country he might not come back? What's wrong with that? ;)"

I'm a South African and I can see some problems with it. Maybe he could go on the lecture circuit in Australia :-)

Anonymous_Coward · 29 July 2006

I'm a South African and I can see some problems with it. Maybe he could go on the lecture circuit in Australia :-)

Send him over to Sydney or Melbourne. I don't want him over on my end. He might even go to Tasmania and preach that all Tasmanian Devils should be killed off. He might even suggest that we nuke Aussieland because Medieval thought considered the lands of the south to be Satan's habitat. (Kinda true for the US south...) We even have "Devil's Rock". He's going to demolish that heritage site.

Anonymous_Coward · 29 July 2006

I'm a South African and I can see some problems with it. Maybe he could go on the lecture circuit in Australia :-)

Either way, it's not going to do you any good on the next Cricket Test or even the World Cup. You can have your "rugby". You guys play too "hord and forst" anyway. And your team probably jammed their car keys into our players' foreheads.

stevaroni · 29 July 2006

David Heddle wrote: Not sure what you people are gloating about. Like PT, Hovind hated cosmological ID, and labeled its proponents as heretics. In that battle, you may have lost one..
See David, that's the problem. The ID crowd sees this as some kind of "battle", a world where people stake out a position for either good or evil, and "you're either with us, or you're a'gin us!" Most of the people on this thread see it as something totally different, a quest for the elusive truth no matter where that takes us. More like "Grab a shovel boys and start digging! It's out here somewhere and dammit - we're gonna find it!". This is what separates dogma from science. It takes a while, but eventually, science always wins because science is more useful than mobs with pitchforks (long term at least).

'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank · 29 July 2006

When he speaks on cosmological ID and its scientific/religious implications, he is virtually indistinguishable from Lenny Flank.

(swims up, sniffs bait, laughgs and swims away) Hey Heddle, I am still waiting for you to tell us why anyone should pay any more attention to your religious opinions than they should to anyone else's. After all, your religious opinions are just that, your opinions. They are no more holy or divine or infallible or authoritative than anyone else's religious opinions. No one is obligated in any way, shape, or form to follow your religious opinions, to accept them, or even to pay any attention at all to them. You are not any more holy or godly than anyone else is, Heddle. You are just a man. Just a man. Right?

Arden Chatfield · 29 July 2006

Hey Heddle, I am still waiting for you to tell us why anyone should pay any more attention to your religious opinions than they should to anyone else's. After all, your religious opinions are just that, your opinions. They are no more holy or divine or infallible or authoritative than anyone else's religious opinions. No one is obligated in any way, shape, or form to follow your religious opinions, to accept them, or even to pay any attention at all to them.

Or, more succinctly, answer this: why should anyone who is not a Christian, especially an Evangelical Christian, have the slightest interest in Intelligent Design Theory? What motive would a non-Christian have to pay any attention to it?

Ron Okimoto · 29 July 2006

Wasn't it counter productive of Hovind to bring up his speaking tour, when he claims to have no income and these guys pay him to give his speels?

How much were the rubes not going to pay Hovind this time?

steve s · 29 July 2006

What motive would a non-Christian have to pay any attention to it?

Well, there's my motive for paying attention to it--watching religious zealots make boneheaded arguments amuses me. I mean, where else can you find something like Salvador arguing that IC systems are evidence of design, then arguing that the more redundant (ergo less IC) a system is, the more that's evidence for design? You don't get that kind of thing everywhere.

Few things make me laugh as often as the ID Creationists do. I don't know a single Intelligent Design supporter who has not been forced, by his zeal, to say something laugh-out-loud silly.

Shaffer · 29 July 2006

Not sure what you people are gloating about. Like PT, Hovind hated cosmological ID, and labeled its proponents as heretics. In that battle, you may have lost one of you most high-profile like-minded intellectual and philosophical soul mates. When he speaks on cosmological ID and its scientific/religious implications, he is virtually indistinguishable from Lenny Flank. Gosh, do you people not even recognize who your colleagues are?

— Heddle
You guys make me laugh. Trust me, scientists don't need any help from Hovind in pointing out that ID is pseudoscientific nonsense. No, we're pretty certain who our colleagues are. What Hovind and the ID crowd have in common is that they're both anti-science. The only intellectual difference between them, in fact, is that Hovind never got the memo to stop preaching when attempting to change school board curricula. His tactics are different from yours, but your motives are the same.

Shaffer · 30 July 2006

Wasn't it counter productive of Hovind to bring up his speaking tour, when he claims to have no income and these guys pay him to give his speels? How much were the rubes not going to pay Hovind this time?

— Ron Okimoto
Counterproductive? Not really. It's not as if he's going to be able to convince the court that he's a hermit. He owns a house. He owns his "adventure parks." He obviously has assets. To argue that he had no income would be ridiculous. Remember, though, that his legal strategy appears to be a matter of saying that he's an employee of God, that God gives him an allowance, so to speak, and that as a result, his incomes are not subject to taxation. Or something like that. It's very confusing. But somehow, in his warped little mind, such a defense is not at all ridiculous. My heart weeps for the poor sad-sack public defender that drew this nutcase defendant.

k.e. · 30 July 2006

-excuse me all while I wind up one of our colonial cousins.

Anonymous_Coward.....
The SA's left their Kor keys in your players foreheads? (instead of the Kor Pork)
AHA!
A member of the set of Bledisloe Cup
losers ...hehehhe.( The All Blacks... greetest und must unvunceble Rugby Side uvur...go you good thung)

Renier · 31 July 2006

Come on about the Rugby... don't be nasty now! The "bokke" will beat you again...

"Somehow I doubt there will be riots in the streets of South Africa just because Dr. Dino is ruled to be a flight risk."

There won't be any riots. In fact, I doubt our media will even cover it. I, for one, are glad that you guys keep him over there.

Are they really suggesting that the people who promoted his appearances in S.A. would be in physical danger if he isn't allowed to appear?

Well, they are in bed with some militant Xians, but I doubt anything will come from it.

Where does Hovind draw his support in South Africa? Are Hovind's followers there mostly Afrikaaners?

Some will be Calvinistic Afrikaners, but some will be charismatic English speaking Xians. Anyway, he won't make a dent in our education system. I might be wrong, but my perception is that the people who are bringing Hovind over are the same type of people that wouldn't mind the old Apartheid system back in action. It always boils down to politics, somehow. However, some good did come out of all of this. About 3 weeks ago a bloke here at my work dumped one of Hovind's DVDs (Age of the Earth) on my desk, full of praise for the DVD. As luck would have it, it was the same day he (Hovind) got arrested. I forwarded the arrest information (thanks Lenny) to the bloke and all of a sudden he wants to throw the DVD away, because he now sees Hovind as a fraud. As a further bonus, he came to realise that he can be a Christian without believing the Earth is 6000 years old.

Tyrannosaurus · 31 July 2006

Yes, as part of their 'catch-and-release' program.
Darn enviromentalists ;)

Steve Harrynuk · 31 July 2006

I was under the impression that he was still remanded. I guess he bailed himself out with the money he stole.

Hovind was scheduled to travel to seven South African cities between Aug. 12 and Aug. 21 to debate scientists.

I'm sorry my opponent couldn't be here today, but he's under indictment for tax fraud...

Wayne E Francis · 1 August 2006

Not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet but if Kent Hovind claims he is not a US Citizen then taking away his US Passport is just logical. I mean I'm not an Australian, British, French, etc Citizen. Could I complain to those countries that I don't have a passport from them?

Lydia · 4 August 2006

Hi. Im from South Africa, and, quite honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if people rioted. They riot about anything here(though I do doubt they care about creation or evolution).And, on the creation issue, I agree with Kent Hovind on all his theories. They make sense.If people actually bothered to listen to his debates they would see how wrong evolution is.Its a great disapointment that Kent Hovind isn't coming.Maybe next time when hes paid his tax.

Michael Suttkus, II · 4 August 2006

I have listened. Hovind is among the least convincing creationists I've ever heard. And "least convincing creationist" is right up there with "least honest politician" as a category for which there is massive competition. He can't even convince other creationists he makes an ounce of sense (re: AIG's dismissal of him).

Eric · 8 August 2006

Lydia presents a comment typical of white South Africans yearning for the Apartheid past. Her comment "I wouldn't be surprised if people rioted. They riot about anything here" gives her away. During the Apartheid years, people like Lydia were baffled by the fact that black South Africans protested against laws which effectively denied them citizenship in their own homeland. Today they huddle together to bitch endlessly about the democratically elected government. I know her type. She is a racist to the core.

As a school boy in the 1980s I was subjected to relentless indoctrination under the guise of Religious Instruction. Here we were taught that godless communists were intent upon destroying this little outpost of Christianity in darkest Africa. One of the weapons in the arsenal of Apartheid South Africa's enemies was, of course, the evil doctrine of evolution. Unlike democracy, Apartheid was ordained by God. Just ask Lydia.

DodgerDean · 6 September 2006

It seems Dr. Dino is feeling the urge to get back out on the road again, (hey, a guy's gotta earn a living).

He must have been unhappy with his appointed public defender, because he's got this new guy doing his filings for him, an Alan S. Richey, formerly of Washington State (never a good sign).

GuyeFaux · 6 September 2006

She is a racist to the core.

That's a bit ad hominem. I don't know if Lydia is racist, but surely you need more evidence than the note about people rioting. If Lydia has a viewpoint on science, she's welcome to share. I'm rather curious about anything that Kent Hovind said that "makes sense."

Steviepinhead · 6 September 2006

The name Alan S. Richey comes from the lawyer signature line on the linked copy of Hovind's motion to the court requesting permission to travel outside of northern Florida.

There is indeed an Alan S. Richey who remains an active member of the Washington State Bar (admitted in 2000).

It does not appear, based on a quick search of the Florida Bar's site, that there are any Florida bar members named Alan Richey.

It's possible that, for some reason, the Washington lawyer has appeared in Hovind's northern Florida federal case. There's a process that allows for doing that (called a request to appear pro hac vice). And folks have previously noted a connection between Hovind's oddball tax posturing and tax-scammers with a Washington connection.

Without additional information, though, I'd say it's a little early to be certain that the Washington lawyer with the similar name is the same guy as Hovind's current lawyer in the northern Florida case--though the evidence is suggestive. What would nail that down would be somebody accessing earlier documents in the Florida tax case to determine when and how Mr. Richey first appeared on Hovind's behalf.

Then, if it turns out that there is a Washington connection, we could backtrack to see what fun things, if any, our Mr. Richey has been up to...

DodgerDean · 7 September 2006

Well, at least you saw it, didn't you Steviepinhead? The good doctor's 9/6 blog evolved overnight from a straight forward copy of a motion to lift his travel restrictions, into a weird rant about the "Wizard of Oz"...
I've convinced myself that Hovind's new attorney is indeed Mr. Alan Richey of Wash. - (practice not limited to defending convicted child rapists). Here's a case from last spring where he defended a seller of tax scams in Mass.,... and lost.