The great schism of Answers in Genesis

Posted 21 November 2006 by Nick Matzke

We tend to focus on the ID creationists here at PT, but it is worth remembering that outside of the public policy sphere, in the conservative evangelical subculture, it is still the young-earth creationist ministries that are the dominant players. All year there have been rumors and speculation about the causes of a breakup between the USA branch of Answers in Genesis, which is sinking a huge amount of money into their Creation Museum, and the Australia branch. Blogger Jim Lippard is The Official Expert on all of this, and today he has The Big Scoop on a whole bunch of new details about the schism. Follow the links in his post to see his previous posts tracking the issue throughout 2006.

18 Comments

Glen Davidson · 21 November 2006

Let's just hope that this doesn't affect their ability to do science.

Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/b8ykm

stevaroni · 21 November 2006

I haven't seen this kind of bitterness since the great Tortise Schism of '02, where the maverick breakaway "Back of a Turtle" faction turned viciously on the old-line "Fixed Disk on Pillers" party.

It wasn't pretty, especially for the poor, independant "Square With 4 Corners" caucus. They never did get over the betrayal.

Gerard Harbison · 21 November 2006

Let's just hope that this doesn't affect their ability to do science.

ROFL! Oh, it won't. It won't at all. :-)

'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank · 21 November 2006

There's no enemy like the enemy within, eh?

Lenny's Pizza Guy · 21 November 2006

So are you hanging around for a minute, boss? Or still jumping from one PZ thread to the next?

I'd kinda like to deliver this pizza while it's still hot, not collect my non-tip, and get on home for the night...

UnMark · 21 November 2006

Everyone knows that 'AAA' is the only logical choice of name! It has 3 'A's!! 'UAL' and 'AAL' are stupid and illogical!

Go Otters!

'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank · 21 November 2006

So are you hanging around for a minute, boss? Or still jumping from one PZ thread to the next?

Well, I don't know yet if I'm allowed to post on any of PZ's threads . . . Apparently I was, um, bad, or something.

I'd kinda like to deliver this pizza while it's still hot, not collect my non-tip, and get on home for the night...

Well, since I appear to still be locked out of the house (and sleeping in the doghouse), I guess you'll just have to leave it in the backyard for me.

Brian X · 22 November 2006

Typical hardline Christians. It's funny -- the most radical are always the most exclusionary. They are absolutely desperate to spread the word, but will shut out anyone who dissents.

Whereas us lefties -- we'll accept almost anyone as long as they promise to play nice. Our greatest virtue, our greatest weakness.

'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank · 22 November 2006

Whereas us lefties --- we'll accept almost anyone as long as they promise to play nice.

Sounds like you've never had to deal with Leninists or Maoists. ;) In my years of political organizing, I've had to deal with Maoists, Stalinists, fundamentalist Muslims, fundamentalist Christians, evangelical atheists, anti-white black activists, Michigan Militia kooks, and Aryan Nations militants. What I've found is that, no matter how different their ideologies might be, extremist ideologues are pretty much interchangeable in their actions and attitudes. Underneath their feathers, they are all the same bird.

Darth Robo · 23 November 2006

Lenny said:

"Well, I don't know yet if I'm allowed to post on any of PZ's threads ... Apparently I was, um, bad, or something."

Again? Oh man, why can't you two boys play nice?

'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank · 23 November 2006

Again? Oh man, why can't you two boys play nice?

Don't look at ME --- I never banned PZ from anything. (shrug)

Peter Henderson · 24 November 2006

I assume that AIG(UK) is part of the US operation ? Also, I notice on AIG's website that they do a lot of talks in Canada. Does Canada have a seperate AIG organisation or is that covered by the main US one ?

'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank · 24 November 2006

I assume that AIG(UK) is part of the US operation ?

Yep. AiG is sinking an awful lot of money and effort to try to get creationism in UK schools. All you Brits out there had better keep your eyes open.

Peter Henderson · 25 November 2006

Unfortunately Lenny, there seems to be a lot of YEC's here in the province (NI) already:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2005/0330hunger.asp

I sometimes wonder if I am the only Christian that finds that the more I listen to Ken Ham and AIG the more I want to doubt my faith but that's the way I feel when I hear these cranks speak ! Obviously a lot of Christians in NI would disagree with me. I still cannot fathom as to why so many intelligent people have been conned by YECism.

'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank · 25 November 2006

Find some fellow UK fundie-fighters here:

http://bcseweb.org.uk/

Peter Henderson · 26 November 2006

I've had a few discussions with Roger over on the SJS blog Lenny, and I also met up with Dean in June when I was on holiday in Hastings. A very pleasant evening it was too. He even had some Irish music layed on for me ! I think the guys over at BCSE and SJS are doing a fine job of making people over here aware of the real asperations of groups like "truth in science", AIG, and the biblical creation society. For the first time John McKay's annual visit to the UK was covered by the press and I think all the publicity actually resulted in a couple of his planned school visits being cancled, largely due to the efforts of the above (SJS and BCSE).

The situation in NI is probably similar to many of the southern Baptist dominated states in the US. A while back someone told me that although it might appear that the YEC's are getting more converts it's just the same people shouting a bit louder. The same could probably be said about this part of the UK I think. I'm a member of this church Lenny:

http://www.acpc.co.uk

Ivan (the minister) is unashamedly YEC and the last couple of months has been like listening to a Ken Ham video without Ken Ham (he was covering Genesis 1-11)! Notable US creationists such as Dr. David Menton (AIG US) and Roger Oakland:

http://www.understandthetimes.org/

have been guest speakers at Abbot's Cross PC.The main denomination (the Presbyterian church in Ireland) allows for a wide range of views on the subject but Ivan is very dogamtic (most YEC's are) Church house told me to confront him, but I don't know. Skip Evans of NCSE wreckons I should tackle him on the problem of "kinds" so I've had a look at your essay on the subject and also Philip Kitcher's chapter "what's in a kind" in his book "Abusing science". It certainly seems to be a big problem for the YEC's i.e. defining what a kind actually is.

I'll probably eventually leave Abbot's Cross because of the YECism. which I think is a form of heresy !

William E Emba · 27 November 2006

AiG is sinking an awful lot of money and effort to try to get creationism in UK schools. All you Brits out there had better keep your eyes open.
— 'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank

In today's BBC there is a news article on the British group "Truth in Science" and their current attempts to get ID in their schools. A local will have to translate what the actual story is.

Peter Henderson · 27 November 2006

TIS are, in reality, a who's who of UK YEC's William. Some them have links with AIG: http://www.bcseweb.org.uk/index.php/Main/TruthInScience

Who Runs Truth in Science? It is understood that Truth in Science has at least one full time employee but we are unaware who it is. The acting chairman of the board is Willis Metcalfe. The other board members are Andy McIntosh, John Perfect, Stephen Layfield (see Infiltration) and Maurice Roberts. The board is the same as it was in March 2004. The council of reference consists of Stuart Burgess, John Blanchard, Gerard Chrispin, George Curry, David Harding, Russell Healey and Derek Linkens. The council has seen two departures since March 2004 --- Stephen Taylor and Richard Porter. George Curry, David Harding and Russell Healey are new names. (Note that Truth in Science has stopped referring to John Blanchard as 'Dr' John Blanchard --- presumably this follows us pointing out that his PhD is from a diploma mill.) The scientific panel consists of Richard Buggs, Arthur Jones and Tim Wells. All three have scientific PhDs although Jones is not a practising scientist. The scientific panel appears to have been set up since March 2004. A total of six of these people were signatories to the 2002 Estelle Morris letter - McIntosh, Burgess, Taylor, Linkens, Wells and Jones. The following also appear to have been involved in Truth in Science as work by them is presented on Truth in Science's web site: Marc Surtees, Paul Garner (Biblical Creation Society and also signatory to the 2002 Estelle Morris letter) and John Peet (also of the Biblical Creation Society and signatory to the 2002 Estelle Morris letter). In other words it is the same long standing group of UK creationists regrouped around yet another name.