The reticence cloaks an unorthodox agenda. "We are the first ones doing what we might call lab science in intelligent design," says George Weber, the only one of Biologic's four directors who would speak openly with me. "The objective is to challenge the scientific community on naturalism." Weber is not a scientist but a retired professor of business and administration at the Presbyterian Whitworth College in Spokane, Washington. He heads the Spokane chapter of Reasonstobelieve.org, a Christian organisation that seeks to challenge Darwinism. . . . Last week I learned that following his communication with New Scientist, Weber has left the board of the Biologic Institute. Douglas Axe, the lab's senior researcher and spokesman, told me in an email that Weber "was found to have seriously misunderstood the purpose of Biologic and to have misrepresented it". Axe's portrayal of the Biologic Institute's purpose excludes religious connotation. He says that the lab's main objective "is to show that the design perspective can lead to better science", although he allows that the Biologic Institute will "contribute substantially to the scientific case for intelligent design".Clearly, the Discovery Institute has established the Biologic Institute a few decades too late. The Institute for Creation Research and the Creation Research Society have been doing research to challenge naturalism for a long time. They are so prestigious in the field that they have even created their own research journals for publishing their papers. This does not bode well for the Discovery and Biologic Institutes because they will have a hard time breaking the stranglehold that those two research centers have on the industry. For decades now, the ICR and CRS have been telling us that their research is going to revolutionize science in five years time. How can the Biologic and Discovery Institutes compete with such success? We here at the Thumb wish the Biologic and Discovery Institutes all the luck in turning the ID public relations campaign into a working scientific program. They'll need it.
New Scientist Investigates the Biologic Institute
In its latest issue, New Scientist has published a story---Intelligent design: The God Lab---and an editorial---It's still about religion---about that double-secret, DI funded research center: the Biologic Institute.
74 Comments
Simon G. · 14 December 2006
aww... how cute, they think they're scientists.
Christophe Thill · 14 December 2006
This reminds me very strongly of the Raëlians' famous "cloning laboratory". Am I the only one?
Katarina · 14 December 2006
k.e. · 14 December 2006
oh very tres manifique ....here is a prediction they will discover a handful, a manipolo, a håndfull, a handjevol, a punhado, die Handvoll, a poignée, a 少数, bir avuç, a garstka, a عَدَد قَليل of dust, which by any other name is still a handfull (OF DUST)...after all..... man created god from it.
Andrea Bottaro · 14 December 2006
Reed is absolutely right that just having trained scientists working in a real lab on an official "research program" in itself is not going to accomplish the desired feat of lending ID "scientific respectability", as the failure of decades of work by "creation scientists" has shown.
It seems likely that the BI work is mainly going to focus on peripheral issues related to "obstacles to evolution", as Axe's previous work and the Behe & Snoke paper did, and not on ID itself, which is essentially empty of positive scientific predictions. I think papers of that kind can certainly find outlets in the mainstream scientific literature. Whether they will convince anyone about any "big picture" interpretation is another matter.
Still, I have to hand it to Axe and Gauger for putting their scientific careers where their mouths are. I don't know what kind of contract and guarantees they got from the DI, but if this move results in a long publication drought, as young scientists this could be a big problem. (The third guy is not a scientist at all, so I am sure if things go sour he could happily go straight back working at MS messing up browser software.)
Which brings me to the last point - I actually and honestly wish them good luck. If they do real science, and interpret their data rigorously without forcing interpretations on them (as Dembski as been doing with Axe's previous work, for instance), they may well turn out to be the death blow against ID (in its present form). This is of course assuming they will publish any kind of result, both favorable and unfavorable for ID, and we have no reason to doubt them at this point.
It is certainly a positive development that, only a mere decade or so into its history of proclaiming that a scientific revolution is afoot, the modern ID movement has realized that doing science should actually be part of the deal. Now, if they just fired all their lawyers/PR hacks and put all their cash in the BI, I'd be totally happy.
Flint · 14 December 2006
I don't think the 2-decade headstart the ICR and CRS have had, will pose much of a problem. After all, science builds on existing work, and the BI folks should be able to come up to speed on all the lab work the ICR and CRS have done, within a reasonable amount of time. In fact, they probably already ARE up to speed, since they are specialists in this field and presumably keep up to date with the latest research and results.
Flint · 14 December 2006
Well, I posted this, and it vanished. Preview shows NO prior posts, so I don't know where it went. If this is a duplicate, don't blame me...
I don't think the 2-decade headstart the ICR and CRS have had, will pose much of a problem. After all, science builds on existing work, and the BI folks should be able to come up to speed on all the lab work the ICR and CRS have done, within a reasonable amount of time. In fact, they probably already ARE up to speed, since they are specialists in this field and presumably keep up to date with the latest research and results.
Sounder · 14 December 2006
10 to 1 says this is just ICR 2.0. The hush-hush nature of the institute--a hush-hush science lab for god's sakes--is all I need to know about this move. They want an apologetics mill that they can quote from and say, "Ah ha! Now we have publications! You can't deny we're all about science now!"
Reminds me of Mormonism's FAARMS institute: a scientific front used to shore up and protect a failing faith.
Larry Gilman · 14 December 2006
The New Scientist page linked to from this Thumb posting shows a thumbnail ad for the print version of the magazine in the left column. The cover photo, an old man with his back to a chimp, both with their chins in the air, is (weirdly) the same that was used on the cover of Behe's Darwin's Black Box---at least in the softbound edition (Touchstone, 1998).
"Great Minds Think Alike" is the cover story with the man-chimp photo. Presumably the New Scientist did not mean to be classing themselves with Behe . . . Or is Behe supposed to be the---nah, can't be. That would be ad hominid, eh?
There should be something more clever to say about this: maybe someone else can think of what it is. Still, I found the clashy deja vu pretty intense until I figured out where it was coming from. Lazy graphics person at New Scientist is probably the long and short of it.
Larry
Whatever · 14 December 2006
I don't think the metaphor "Beating a dead horse" is going to work for these people anymore. From now on we should use the analogy "Beating a horse that has been dead for 10 years". Come on, how many times do these people have to fail before they realize it's just not going to happen. Take all the money you are spending on "Real" ID research and feed starving children, or fight disease. It's just a waste of money.
Torville · 14 December 2006
Granted that Weber is out and the following query is therefore effectively moot, but nonetheless...
"The objective is to challenge the scientific community on naturalism."
I'm wondering what kind of experimental result Weber had in mind here.
"And, since the litmus strip now turns BLUE, we can see that the only plausible explanation is the intervention of a supernatural entity, presumably a litmus fairy, or perhaps a lesser known patron saint of pH balance."
Glen Davidson · 14 December 2006
No, see, they're going to come up with unreproducible results and chalk them up to the supernatural. Sort of like we did in labs from time to time....
I knew my professors were biased when I got so-called "impossible results". Where were the IDIsts when I needed them (and no, really, I didn't screw up labs very often)?
Maybe that's the secret behind ID after all, revenge on the teachers who denied their creations of energy, their spontaneous generation of flies and bacteria ('honest, it wasn't contamination, it was God'), and their inability to get any consistent geological dates (so we're agnostic on the age of the earth, don't you know?). The science teachers will pay when we bring down materialism/naturalism.
What other "results" could they come up with? "Consistent miracles" wouldn't be considered to be miracles, so they must be trying to show that science is really inconsistent, which it likely will be in their hands.
Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/b8ykm
Bob O'H · 14 December 2006
Adam Ierymenko · 14 December 2006
The quality of the research that comes out of this is likely to be similar to the quality of "Christian rock."
If propaganda is your primary motivation, it becomes the only thing you will excel at. That's why the research (and the music) will suck.
Madam Pomfrey · 14 December 2006
There won't be anything even remotely useful coming out of this place. If they were seriously interested in biology and its applications to real needs such as curing disease, improving food quality, etc., they'd be doing that research at any of the hundreds of reputable institutions that already exist. It'll be a propaganda mill just like the ones in the past, and its main reason for being will be so that their targeted sections of the public (nonscientists and the religiously inclined) will think that there is some "scientific intelligent design research" going on somewhere, and will be more favorably disposed towards it.
"However, Steve Fuller, a sociologist at the University of Warwick, UK, who testified in favour of ID in the Dover trial, believes the Biologic Institute's activities could help break down barriers between religious people and scientists. "Regardless of whether the science cuts any ice against evolution, one of the virtues is that it could provide a kind of model for how religiously motivated people can go into the lab."
Sure, the way to "break down barriers" between religious people and scientists is to weaken science so it becomes less threatening to said religious people. And why should religiously motivated people be encouraged to "go into the lab" any differently than other scientists, anyway? What malarkey.
GuyeFaux · 14 December 2006
I guess they'll sit around waiting for the intelligent designer to "intervene" and hope they get it on film.
I wonder, are they hoping for reproducible or irreproducible results?
Katarina · 14 December 2006
Erasmus · 14 December 2006
Hey, Stryper ROCKED!!!!!!!!eleven!!
Flint · 14 December 2006
To some degree, I think I can understand the "ID scientist" being frustrated. To Behe, I came to understand, design is a direct, observable property, like color. It's not something you derive from evidence, it IS evidence immediately. You look at the eye, you see design. It's there, it's something an eye HAS. So what can you do in a lab? Peer at an eye and say "Ayup, it's designed, just as we saw last time. It has the property of design." Through Behe's view, design is simply not a conclusion. God is the conclusion. Design is the raw datum.
Katarina · 14 December 2006
If it was my job to come up with a definition of IC, logically I would have to assign the following properties:
1. The system is perfect at its function,
2. There are no functioning homologues lacking any components which are present in said system (i.e. no simpler versions)
Wonder if I could get a job at the DI.
Sir_Toejam · 14 December 2006
Coin · 14 December 2006
bjm · 14 December 2006
BC · 14 December 2006
What I find funny about the "Biologic Institute" is all the subterfuge. They want to avoid mention of "God". They want to be respectable. They fire George Weber because he "was found to have seriously misunderstood the purpose of Biologic and to have misrepresented it" (read: that purpose is to disguse the fact that they are a branch of Christian apologists, Weber talked too much about God). Also, the website "ReasonsToBelieve" backs Hugh Ross (old earth creationist). When reading the article I couldn't help but think about these ID "scientists" putting on a red cape, taking off their glasses like superman, running down the street telling everyone that they're real scientists, and that Goddidit. Then they go back home, take off their capes, put on their glasses, sit behind their desks labeled "Christian Creationist", and hope that their glasses prevent people from recognizing the fact that they're the same person.
Bill Gascoyne · 14 December 2006
Popper's ghost · 14 December 2006
BC · 14 December 2006
BC · 14 December 2006
Popper's ghost · 14 December 2006
Coin · 14 December 2006
Popper's ghost · 14 December 2006
a. neuroscientist · 15 December 2006
Not that I'm defending anything the DI, BI, ICR or CRS might publish, but it's not uncommon for people or groups to have their own research journals. Ramon y Cajal, the father of modern neuroscience, had his own journal to publish his histological work at the turn of the last century; the NCI has the Journal of the National Cancer Institute; the AMA has JAMA; the National Academies has PNAS; etc. All these undoubtedly conform to a higher standard of evidence and peer review than anything coming out of DI, BI, ICR or CRS (with the possible exception of Cajal's self-publishing, but that was 100 years ago); but it's not as though scientific groups/institutions, and in some cases individuals haven't used journals to publish research related to topics that they care about. Even Nature was established, in 1869, to serve a "polemic" purpose: the dissemination of Darwin's ideas.
Popper's ghost · 15 December 2006
Sometimes posting something when the server isn't jammed makes messages that were posted when the server was jammed show up. Let's try it ...
Popper's ghost · 15 December 2006
Oh well, it was worth a try. One thing that's clear is that it's not a matter of server load, so getting a more powerful server won't help any; there's something seriously wrong with the software.
normdoering · 15 December 2006
Popper's ghost · 15 December 2006
Mark Studduck, FCD · 15 December 2006
Andrea Bottaro, your post above is excellent.
Thank you for writing something here worth reading.
MS
Popper's ghost · 15 December 2006
Popper's ghost · 15 December 2006
a. neuroscientist · 15 December 2006
Perhaps I just misinterpreted the intended tone of the statement that...
"The Institute for Creation Research and the Creation Research Society have been doing research to challenge naturalism for a long time. They are so prestigious in the field that they have even created their own research journals for publishing their papers. This does not bode well for the Discovery and Biologic Institutes because they will have a hard time breaking the stranglehold that those two research centers have on the industry."
...and the subsequent comment by Katarina.
Unless the ICR and CRS really ARE that prestigious, it struck me as a sarcastic way of saying "yeah, those IDiots have to have their own journal to publish their work since they can't get it in the literature otherwise." While that is undoubtedly correct, I just found it a bit disingenuous since the best scientists are not above doing the same thing. If I did misinterpret those statements, I am sincerely sorry.
Popper's ghost · 15 December 2006
Popper's ghost · 15 December 2006
a. neuroscientist · 15 December 2006
Okay, so the tone IS sarcastic, which means I DIDN'T misinterpret anything. My point, which I apparently did not make clearly enough, is that think it's a bit self-righteous of scientists (and I say this as a practicing scientist) to ridicule ID-types for making their own journals to publish in. Scientists do it to... Our efforts are better spent dismantling their wingnut ideas. As one of my profs in grad school used to say "There's no research so bad you can't publish it somewhere." The real test of anything in the scientific literature, whether that's Nature or J. Crappy Results is if it generates falsifiable predictions about the natural world, and provides a better explanation of observable phenomena than what was present before. There's plenty in the genuine, NIH-funded, peer-reviewed, PubMed listed molecular biology literature that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, because it is as poorly executed as what is likely to come out of the DI/BI.
Torbjörn Larsson · 15 December 2006
Popper's ghost · 15 December 2006
Katarina · 15 December 2006
Flint · 15 December 2006
stevaroni · 15 December 2006
Katarina · 15 December 2006
Katarina · 15 December 2006
Popper's ghost · 15 December 2006
Katarina · 15 December 2006
Popper's ghost · 15 December 2006
Popper's ghost · 15 December 2006
Popper's ghost · 15 December 2006
Popper's ghost · 15 December 2006
Katarina · 15 December 2006
Flint · 15 December 2006
steve s · 15 December 2006
BC · 15 December 2006
Popper's ghost · 15 December 2006
Popper's ghost · 15 December 2006
Katarina · 15 December 2006
testing...
DMA · 15 December 2006
I work in an ancient lab, last remodeled in maybe the 30's, at least until we move into a new lab next fall. Only one fume hood is functional, I desperately need a microscope in our cold room, our single incubator is a piece of broken down garbage, and my lab bench is made of wood that oozes unidentifiable black crap when I wipe it down. So imagine my irritation to read in New Scientist that "...benches lined with fume hoods, incubators and microscopes..." have been given to IDers, who in the last decade and a half could hardly be bothered to lift a damn pipette. If that equipment were in the hands of my lab, we'd actually do research with it. Of course, we're all familiar with Intelligent Design Creationism. Wouldn't it be par for course if their benches were plywood mockups, microscopes all missing lenses, and fume hoods not plugged into the necessary air handling equipment? I'm no expert on the building engineering end of scientific research, but I imagine that a biology research center requires all sorts of special equipment, permits, and inspections. Who wants to bet the IDers haven't bothered? After all, it's not like they're actually going to do scientific research--that's hard work, would undermine their own postion, and above all else take cash away from their PR effort.
Mike Elzinga · 15 December 2006
I find it peculiar that the Biologic Institute wants to find "counter-examples" the work of Pennock. Does that mean that if they write an algorithm that doesn't show evolutionary behavior that they have therefore refuted Pennock's work?
Duh! Any incompetent fool can write a program that doesn't work. And any bumbling idiot can claim they don't get the same results others do while waving their degrees in the air to prove they are legitimate researchers. If you have a laboratory or a program that is used solely for disputing results established by the scientific community, that doesn't prove anything. Results must be replicated (or non-replicated in their case) independently and have to stand up repeatedly.
It sounds as though this lab is for political purposes only. Claim in public that your lab results dispute those of the established scientific community and now it is the duty of the scientific community to answer or refute your claims. And we are off and running on the famous "controversies" with the public and the politicians believing BI's lab is as legitimate as those in the scientific community. Unfortunately, this may require honest researchers to waste their time "peer reviewing" a bunch of crap that would not have passed muster in the earliest stages of review.
Mike Elzinga · 15 December 2006
Had another thought after my last post.
The complaint by Mark Souder, discussed in another thread, raises a question about possible earmarking of funds for institutes like BI. Given how much this was abused in this last Congress, it would not come as a surprise if some of BI's funding came from this source. It would be a way taxpayer money could be siphoned off to fund a sectarian agenda without going through a peer review process such as required by NSF.
Just some speculation, but it happens quite often in other contexts. Has anyone discovered where their money ultimately comes from?
Katarina · 16 December 2006
Katarina · 16 December 2006
stevaroni · 16 December 2006
Ron Okimoto · 16 December 2006
The saddest thing about this "research" is that they will be specifically writing papers so that they can dishonestly quote mine themselves and claim the papers say things that are not concluded by the research. Both Minnich and Behe had to admit that under oath. Their papers that are listed by the Discovery Institute as supporting ID, do not support ID. Both had to admit under oath that not a single scientific publication that they knew of supported ID, and unless they don't know about the papers that they themselves published they had to admit that the Discovery Institute is dishonestly using those publications. Does anyone think that Axe's papers were excluded from that confession? The dishonest propaganda use for any "research" that these guys end up doing is their only reason for their existence.
It is pretty sad when you publish junk just so that you can dishonestly claim things about it for creationist propaganda purposes. What you are not likely to see is anyone of these "scientists" that eventually publish from this "research" testifying in the next lame ID court case because they would have to admit the same thing that Behe and Minnich had to admit. It would be a major boondoggle for the Discovery Institute scam artist to make that mistake twice.
Flint · 16 December 2006
Flint · 16 December 2006
Ron Okimoto · 17 December 2006
Tony Whitson · 20 December 2006