Creato-Terrorism Update

My fiance was also targeted by this man, after his presentation at a popularly oriented paleontology conference. Korn sent out a mass e-mail to conference presenters, to which my fiance responded. I don't have a copy of any of the messages, but he accused Darwinists of 'child molestation,' and, when my fiance responded, replied to him with a very nasty email which was forwarded to all conference participants.

I mention it because my fiance is an undergraduate at CU Boulder, and brought up his harassment with his advisor in the geology department, who had, I believe, considered taking legal action with CU legal services. CU has been aware of this man and hi hateful rhetoric, at the very least since March, and with his past history, I am quite frankly astonished at the Campus Police's decision not to ban anyone from campus.

I suspect that if these guys are ever caught, they won't turn out be creationists, or even very religious people.

I guess ID's application to forensics was broken this week.

"a former Messianic Jew who has converted to Christianity"

I think maybe the reporter got mixed up on terms. A Messianic Jew is one who has converted to Christianity. Probably intended to mean "a former Jew who converted to Christianity". But, maybe Korn has been disowned by the other Messianic Jews. I'd rather not subject myself to his webpage long enough to figure that one out.

I suspect that if these guys are ever caught, they won't turn out be creationists, or even very religious people.

a former Messianic Jew who has converted to Christianity

Nit: not "former". AFAIK a "Messianic Jew" is by definition a Jew who has converted to Christianity, ie. believes that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah. IIRC, MJs are theologically Protestant fundamentalist while retaining a Jewish praxis (eg. kosher, Jewish holidays).

I don't have a copy of any of the messages, but he accused Darwinists of 'child molestation,'

You see this type of rhetoric all the time, and not just from creationists. If you spend any time on Christian message boards frequented by fundamentalists you will see plenty of examples of the same vitriol directed at liberals of any kind, usually because they are pro-choice. There are a few who frequent an otherwise fairly well moderated Christian message board who will decry any well reasoned argument from a liberal purely because they believe that any opinion from someone who is not anti-abortion on any subject is worthless, because they are murderers and in the thrall of Satan.

There really is no reasoning with this type of person.

I think maybe the reporter got mixed up on terms. A Messianic Jew is one who has converted to Christianity. Probably intended to mean "a former Jew who converted to Christianity".

AFAIK, a "Messianic Jew" is a Jewish person who believes the messiah has come. Jesus is a popular choice (a la Jews for Jesus --members of which explicitly deny being "Christian") but several rabbis have applied for the job (Job?) as well.

Does the DI or other creationist organizations peddle this "The Evolution Fact Book"? That would be a laff riot.

Chris

The guy's web site is pretty revealing. He's crazy. 9-11 was an "inside job" and Bush pulled the strings. Who knew?

He's a science denier, views himself as a persecuted victim, and has a marginal grasp on reality. All he needs to do now is deny the HIV-AIDs link and he'll become a Discovery Institute Fellow.

Nice.

Maybe Dimsbki could use him as one of his UD lapdogs.

The fiance of a friend of mine also was one of this guy's targets, and the letter she got was completely different from any of the ones I've seen quoted elsewhere. Did *every* target get personalized rants? The amount of time and effort this guy must have gone into writing all of these is starting to sound enormous.

It's like one of those USENET flooding trolls somehow broke its chains and escaped into the real world or something.

I wonder if the religious fanatic in Boulder is connected with the religious fanatics in Washington DC yesterday: "The Senate was opened with a Hindu prayer placing the false god of Hinduism on a level playing field with the One True God, Jesus Christ." - http://www.operationsaveamerica.org.

Apparently a number of individual harassment charges may be pressed by the county government, but CU is only investigating the possibility of banning Mr. Korn from campus.

Additionally, because Korn was sending expensive copies of Harun Yahya's Atlas of Creation to these professors, it has been suggested that he is receiving outside funding.

Updates as I get 'em.

I find that the difference between the near hysteria over the Colorado harassment and the PT denial of actual professional and physical harm caused to Paul Mirecki fascinating. Disgusting, but fascinating.

It seems pretty clear to me from the descriptions of this Korn-hole's antics that he's mentally ill... but we're talking about creationist fundamentalists here. Finding mental illness in that crowd is about as difficult as finding Chinese-manufactured goods at a Wal-mart.

Finally something that falls into my field! A "Messianic Jew" is one who believes that Jesus is the Messiah, while still holding themselves to be a Jew, and worshiping in an essentially Jewish manner. A "Messianic Jew who has converted to Christianity" is one who has decided to give up the charade and admit that they've been a Christian all along.

I find that the difference between the near hysteria over the Colorado harassment and the PT denial of actual professional and physical harm caused to Paul Mirecki fascinating. Disgusting, but fascinating.

— Gary Hurd

The issue is not whether this man is mentally ill. The issue is that he poses a possible threat to the faculty and students of the Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at the University of Colorado. If, as it appears, the university administration is not taking sufficient measures to protect faculty and students from Mr. Korn, this is a problem, and calls into question several decisions in recent years by the administration, most recently the arrest of a student for harmless social activism following the VT shootings, but also systematic tolerance of religious-motivated incidents on campus and systematic intolerance of certain idealogical perspectives.

CU has been aware of this man for several years now, and they've been aware of his specific antics, as Andrea stated earlier, since March. The fact that they have done absolutely nothing as of yet, and the fact that they are not seriously pursuing any sort of legal action in this incident is something that I find extremely worrisome.

He's crazy. 9-11 was an "inside job" and Bush pulled the strings.

9/11 being an inside job is certainly a indication of a lack of rationality and understanding of natural causes.

I think of that as being a form of being mentally crippled, which might be considered a minor form of mental illness...

9/11 being an inside job is certainly a indication of a lack of rationality and understanding of natural causes.

Popper's Ghost --- It depends upon what one means by natural causes. Those claiming an inside job simply fail to understand how quarter mile tall skyscrapers, both damaged and on fire, could possibly fall down like that without explosives. Even when it is explained to them in the simplest of terms. It is those people I find irrational, and the postings (elsewhere) of some of them certainly appear to sufficiently disordered as to suggest more extreme mental illness.

I'll agree ignorance has something to do with it initially. But after its been explained to them?

And your personal examples do not convince me, since it seems to me, that while you can often post well, you too often descend to name calling. That I take as irrational on your part, under the assumption you want to change someones mind. But perhaps you were only ignorant of that point up until now...

So you don't appear that mentally well to me...

There isn't much doubt he is unbalanced.

The question is, "is he dangerous"?

The escalation in symptoms and threats over time is a bad sign. Simple extrapolation, plot probability of going homicidal versus time. Psychs. look at this as one of the few ways to determine if someone is dangerous. Past history is important too but we don't have access to this.

The cops need to haul him in, have him evaluated, explain what the laws are and how he has broken them at the least. Harassment, stalking, cyberstalking, and threats are all crimes in most jurisdictions.

It is odd that CU is apparently doing nothing if the reports circulating are accurate. If Seung Cho taught us anything, it is not to give the benefit of the doubt to people who are acting out and escalating.

One thing for sure. If the Xian jihadi gets violent, the admin. at CU, Boulder will have one hell of a lot of 'splaining to do. They will have time while they fill out their unemployment forms.

The other thing CU should do is upgrade the security around the biology building. Security cameras at the entrances and parking lots. More frequent patrols by campus security. Maybe a permanent guard stationed somewhere.

They have a lot of responsibility for the safety of students, staff, and faculty. People are watching, this is not the type of situations any admin. wants to screw up.

So you don't appear that mentally well to me...

Thus far the DI's only reaction has been to insinuate that the CU professors lied to the police about the whole affair,

A nutcase making vague threats is not "terrorism". Please stop saying that. It's embarrassing.

A nutcase making vague threats is not "terrorism". Please stop saying that. It's embarrassing.

ter·ror·ism [ter-uh-riz-uhm]---noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes. 2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.

No ben, don't be silly. A pedant would start an argument wether the "and" in your quote is an inclusive or an exclusive conjunction. A reasonable person would agree that calling something terrorism when it's obviously not is the kind of flammable rethoric that should be avoided (for a number of reasons).

It is terrorism plain and simple. Falls within any definition of terrorism.

Being crazy (if he is) is what he is and why he may be doing it.

Terrorism is the activity being carried out.

These are two entirely separate issues.

I guess definitions of terrorism are somewhat subjective, but if the reasoning is that the guy is just a lone crank, and not an organization like the Red Brigades or the Animal Liberation Front, then one would have to exclude bona fide terrorists like the Unabomber, which clearly makes no sense. If instead the reason for the exclusion is that Mr. Korn has (to our knowledge) yet to hurt anyone, then it's a meaningless distinction, and a dangerous one.

This doesn't mean that the guy deserves the same treatment as a terrorist killer, but that terrorism has many forms, and in my opinion, issuing credible, repeated threats to ideological opponents with the intent to intimidate them and disrupt their activities falls under the category.

vi·o·lence [vahy-uh-luhns]-noun ..... 5. rough or immoderate vehemence, as of feeling or language: the violence of his hatred.

A nutcase making vague threats is not "terrorism". Please stop saying that. It's embarrassing.

Yeah, this Korn fella's website really makes it look like he's nuttier than Chinese Chicken Salad. I like how his name is spelled with a 'K' like the band Korn. They aren't exactly what I'd call Christian music, despite the fact that their tours are often called "The Family Values Tour." The irony here is delicious.

then one would have to exclude bona fide terrorists like the Unabomber, which clearly makes no sense.

Pat Robertson: wikipedia Hugo Chávez" I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don't think any oil shipments will stop. We will find you, we will try you, and we will execute you. I mean every word of it. [Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, at the Aug 8, 1995 U.S. Taxpayers Alliance Banquet in Washington DC, talking about doctors who perform abortions and volunteer escorts My note. Terry's sympathizers have, in fact, murdered more than a few health care workers. "Pastor Jerry Gibson spoke at Doug Whites New Day Covenant Church in Boulder. He said that every true Christian should be ready and willing to take up arms to kill the enemies of Christian society. bcseweb.org Rushdooney: Our list may not be perfect but it seems to cover those "crimes" against the family that are inferred by Rushdoony's statement to Moyers. The real frightening side of it is the interpretation of heresy, apostasy and idolatry. Rushdoony's position seems to suggest that he would have anyone killed who disagreed with his religious opinions. That represents all but a tiny minority of people. Add to that death penalties for what is quite legal, blasphemy, not getting on with parents and working on a Sunday means that it the fantasy ideal world of Rushdoony and his pals, there will be an awful lot of mass murderers and amongst a tiny population. We have done figures for the UK which suggest that around 99% of the population would end up dead and the remainder would have each, on average, killed 500 fellow citizens. Chalcedon foundation bsceweb.org. Stoning disobedient children to death.Contempt for Parental Authority: Those who consider death as a horrible punishment here must realise that in such a case as ....cut for length Rev. William Einwechter, "Modern Issues in Biblical Perspective: Stoning Disobedient Children", The Chalcedon Report, January 1999 When The Hate Comes From 'Churches' ASHLAND, Ore. - A recent spate of crimes points up a growing connection between hateful actions and organizations calling themselves churches. Two brothers from northern California reportedly linked to such a group were charged this week with the killing of two gay men near Redding. Benjamin Matthew Williams and James Tyler Williams also are suspects in the firebombing of three synagogues in the Sacramento area last month. According to personal acquaintances as well as law enforcement officials, the Williams brothers were involved in Christian Identity, a religion that holds Jews and nonwhites to be subhuman and is closely tied to the Aryan Nations white-supremacist group based in northern Idaho. Meanwhile, officials are investigating the links between Benjamin Smith and the World Church of the Creator. Over Independence Day weekend in Illinois and Indiana, Smith shot Asians, Jews, and an African-American (killing two and injuring nine) before killing himself.

The articles to[sic] not say that Korn is the perpetrator, they say that unamed[sic] sources do[sic]. Quit lying.

And how come its[sic] ok for Dawkins and Dennet to claim child abuse?

Terrorism is the unlawful use, or threat, of force against civilians to accomplish a political or ideological goal. Delivering those letters was a terrorist act. A word of advice for those who see this blog as an attack on Christianity: Shake the nuts from the tree. They just make you look bad. It makes you look even worse when you try to use incorrect semantics to weasel around what he's doing.

These guys are weird. Why do men have to do God's work? Isn't he powerful enough to do it on his own?

Let's take a look at religious belief. Every society that we know of has had a spiritual orientation. Most every culture has such beliefs, and the individuals in the societies believe in them honestly.

People born in India almost always grow up to be Hindu. Those born in Tibet almost always become Buddhist. People born in Tel Aviv grow up Jewish, and those in Iran become Muslim. But remember that had they been born in Persia around 500 A.D., they would have believed in Zarathustra, not Mohammed. And in 0 A.D., they believed in Mithra.

People born in Italy usually become Roman Catholic, and those in Greece become Greek Orthodox. But if they had been born in Greece 3,000 years ago, they would have believed in Zeus. And in Rome 3000 years ago, people believed in Jupiter.

In Central America and Mexico, a person born in 1400 AD would have believed in The Aztec gods, but today they are Catholics. Could that be because the Spaniards who over-ran their country were Catholic?

In the United States, there is more variation, but similar patterns occur. In the south, there is a strong likelihood of children growing up in a fundamentalist church. Those born in Utah are much more likely to belong to the Mormon Church than someone born in a small town in Georgia.

Looking at these patterns of belief, we must conclude that the religion you believe in is the result of your time and place of birth. Had you been born in a different part of the world, you would likely have different beliefs.

No matter where a person is born, and hence the religion they believe in, they believe their religion is the true one, and they live their lives by its precepts. Thus, in India, when her husband dies, the wife will throw herself on the funeral pyre and be burned alive. She does this of her own free will.

In Muslim countries, women who themselves have suffered "female circumcision", will have their daughters similarly mutilated. Jews will have their sons circumcised without anesthesia. Mormon doctrine still supports polygamy, though it is not part of the official policy.

The doctrine of many Christian churches supports the idea of war, even though Jesus spoke of forgiveness and compassion. [Matthew 5:9: "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God."]

Perhaps there is room for us to be tolerant of those who have different beliefs than we do, since it is just the accident of our time of birth and our place of birth that gives us our "righteous" beliefs.

Hey raven, how do you define terrorism? Would you include putting people in Gulags, re-eduation camps, and the like until they renounced their beliefs as terrorism? And would you like to kiss my ass?

The articles to not say that Korn is the perpetrator, they say that unamed sources do.

Rule 6 violators have had their comments unpublished.

It may not necessarily be "terrorism" in a broad sense, but legally what Mr. Korn did is referred to as making terroristic threats. Making terroristic threats is still a type of terrorism and should be taken seriously in any case.

— J. Biggs

These guys are weird. Why do men have to do God's work? Isn't he powerful enough to do it on his own?

— Joe

There is no rule 6.

Joe wrote:

"Perhaps there is room for us to be tolerant of those who have different beliefs than we do, since it is just the accident of our time of birth and our place of birth that gives us our "righteous" beliefs."

Thanks for the excellent history of world religions. Given these observations, there are a few questions that could be asked:

1) Why is time and place of birth so important in determining beliefs?

2) How many of these religions can be true?

3) Assuming that one religion can be true, which religion is the one true religion and why can't they convince anyone else?

4) What do all these religions have in common?

5) Why does almost everyone feel such a strong need to have a religion?

6) Why don't scientists have these problems with scientific theories?

David Stanton,

My 2c (partly tongue-in-cheek):

1) Why is time and place of birth so important in determining beliefs?

I think he means that all people living long ago, and many today, can't really be faulted for getting natural history wrong. Of course, the ~50% who believe in astrology have a different meaning in mind.

2) How many of these religions can be true?

At most one of course.

3) Assuming that one religion can be true, which religion is the one true religion and why can't they convince anyone else?

It's Lenny's pizza delivery boy's religion, and I guess he can't convince everyone because not everyone likes pizza.

4) What do all these religions have in common?

An annoying habit whereby, whenever they take issue with science, they conveniently overlook the existence of other religions, and their conflicts with them.

5) Why does almost everyone feel such a strong need to have a religion?

I read that, ironically, natural selection is the culprit. If so, and if in the age of science it's no longer an advantage, it could take 1000s of generations before it goes away. Unless some religious fanatic makes our species extinct first.

6) Why don't scientists have these problems with scientific theories?

Because their claims are independently verifiable of course.

I cannot let Joe's Comment #187876 pass without comment. Joe said:

"In Muslim countries, women who themselves have suffered "female circumcision", will have their daughters similarly mutilated. Jews will have their sons circumcised without anesthesia."

The two kinds of "circumcision" are not at all similar, and calling female genital mutilation (FGM) "female circumcision" is a worse lie than calling creationism "intelligent design." "Circumcision" means "cutting around," but the common practice in Muslim countries is not cutting around but cutting OFF the clitoris, clitoral hood and labia. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting.

Jews will have their sons circumcised without anesthesia.

— Joe

The two kinds of "circumcision" are not at all similar, and calling female genital mutilation (FGM) "female circumcision" is a worse lie than calling creationism "intelligent design." "Circumcision" means "cutting around," but the common practice in Muslim countries is not cutting around but cutting OFF the clitoris, clitoral hood and labia.

— Paul Burnett

In my mind this Korn guy is, by his actions, a terrorist. In that case, he should be incarcerated or, depending on one's preferences, shot.

He should also be made to divulge whether he is working alone, or with others. Because if he is not alone, then that's definitely terrorism in the organized group sense.

It will be interesting to see what happens when/if he is caught and made to divulge what he knows.

I don't know exactly what these creatures are, but everything I ever believed and almost everything I was taught when I was a practising Christian tells me that they have nothing whatsoever to do with Christ.

Just another reason why no atheist is fit for political office.

Yes, and apparently the self-proclaimed religious types currently in office treat all suspected terrorists with great respect. Good thing their religious beliefs are keeping their actions in check.

Justin's suggestions seem excessive to me, but Blair's reply is just silly and indicates that he may not be paying very close attention.

Not to downplay the seriousness of it though. And, contrary to the wishful thinking of anti-evolution activists, I'd be just as outraged if it were an "evolutionist" making "terroristic threats" to anti-evolutionists.

There is no rule 6.

In my mind this Korn guy is, by his actions, a terrorist. In that case, he should be incarcerated or, depending on one's preferences, shot.

He should also be made to divulge whether he is working alone, or with others. Because if he is not alone, then that's definitely terrorism in the organized group sense.

I don't know exactly what these creatures are, but everything I ever believed and almost everything I was taught when I was a practising Christian tells me that they have nothing whatsoever to do with Christ.

So Justin is calling for people to be shot for e mails he does not like? Hmmmm? Just another reason why no atheist is fit for political office.

J-Biggs
re: the existence of rule 6.

I was very close to correcting Prof. Bruce, but then I read his comment with a strong Aussie accent and realized it is from a Monty Python sketch. The line is something like "Rule #6: There is no rule 6"

Comment #187929 Posted by David Stanton on July 15, 2007 8:35 AM (e) Joe wrote: "Perhaps there is room for us to be tolerant of those who have different beliefs than we do, since it is just the accident of our time of birth and our place of birth that gives us our "righteous" beliefs." Thanks for the excellent history of world religions. Given these observations, there are a few questions that could be asked:

1) Why is time and place of birth so important in determining beliefs?

2) How many of these religions can be true?

3) Assuming that one religion can be true, which religion is the one true religion and why can't they convince anyone else?

4) What do all these religions have in common?

5) Why does almost everyone feel such a strong need to have a religion?

6) Why don't scientists have these problems with scientific theories?

J-Biggs re: the existence of rule 6.

Max Korn (and, yeah, I'm using that nickname because he seems foolish enough) appears to have sent letters calling on Christians to commit terrorism. What's the point? All that does is cause persecution and censorship if successful, and arrest and shaming of the person who started this nonsense to begin with besides; if unsuccessful, it just reveals poor Max as a nut or some crazy person (ok, a person with nutty opinions and crazy talk).

I have also heard of one Harum Yahya who has been sending colorful "creation atlases" to professors around the world, attempting to debunk something that the targeted people obviously sincerely believe in (due to much evidence for it). Nice, but I think species have changed over time, Mr. Yahya, and your inclusion of the trilobite in your "atlas" should've pointed to that (after all, the trilobite is extinct, right?)

Furthermore, to the creationists who go about threatening people: Threats won't get you anywhere. They'll just stoke resistance and land you in jail. After all, the Jews killed by the Inquisition went to the grave believing in Judaism, and I doubt that threats and terrorism would change anyone's mind either, except to make them more resistant to your theories. Morons.

I would like to address the issue of "female circumcision", a.k.a. female genital mutilation. I saw it mentioned on here and would like to add a few things. While the basic information is correct as presented, I have a reference to it from Mary Daly's "Gyn/Ecology". According to that reference on p.156, there are actually three types of "female circumcision" (read:FGM):

"1)Sunna Circumcision:removal of the prepuce and/or tip of the clitoris
2)Excision or Clitoridectomy: excision of the entire clitoris with the labia minora and some or most of the external genitalia.
3)Excision and Infibulation(Pharaonic Circumcision):This means excision of the entire clitoris, labia minora, and parts of the labia majora. The two sides of the vulva are then fastened together in some way either by thorns. . . or sewing with catgut.Alternatively, the vulva are scraped raw and the child's limbs are tied together for several weeks until the wound heals(or she dies). The purpose is to close the vaginal orifice. Only a small opening is left(usually by inserting a[sic]slither of wood) so the urine or later the menstrual blood can be passed."

The passage goes on in more detail about the kind of life she can look forward to when she is married, but it's too lengthy to repeat here.

Comment #187694 Posted by Jason P on July 13, 2007 5:07 PM (e) The issue is not whether this man is mentally ill. The issue is that he poses a possible threat to the faculty and students of the Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at the University of Colorado. If, as it appears, the university administration is not taking sufficient measures to protect faculty and students from Mr. Korn, this is a problem, and calls into question several decisions in recent years by the administration, most recently the arrest of a student for harmless social activism following the VT shootings, but also systematic tolerance of religious-motivated incidents on campus and systematic intolerance of certain idealogical perspectives. CU has been aware of this man for several years now, and they've been aware of his specific antics, as Andrea stated earlier, since March. The fact that they have done absolutely nothing as of yet, and the fact that they are not seriously pursuing any sort of legal action in this incident is something that I find extremely worrisome.

Act 19:23 About that time, serious trouble developed in Ephesus concerning the Way.
Act 19:24 It began with Demetrius, a silversmith who had a large business manufacturing silver shrines of the Greek goddess Artemis. He kept many craftsmen busy.
Act 19:25 He called them together, along with others employed in similar trades, and addressed them as follows: "Gentlemen, you know that our wealth comes from this business.
Act 19:26 But as you have seen and heard, this man Paul has persuaded many people that handmade gods aren't really gods at all. And he's done this not only here in Ephesus but throughout the entire province!
Act 19:27 Of course, I'm not just talking about the loss of public respect for our business. I'm also concerned that the temple of the great goddess Artemis will lose its influence and that Artemis---this magnificent goddess worshiped throughout the province of Asia and all around the world---will be robbed of her great prestige!"
Act 19:28 At this their anger boiled, and they began shouting, "Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!"
Act 19:29 Soon the whole city was filled with confusion. Everyone rushed to the amphitheater, dragging along Gaius and Aristarchus, who were Paul's traveling companions from Macedonia.
Act 19:30 Paul wanted to go in, too, but the believers wouldn't let him.
Act 19:31 Some of the officials of the province, friends of Paul, also sent a message to him, begging him not to risk his life by entering the amphitheater.
Act 19:32 Inside, the people were all shouting, some one thing and some another. Everything was in confusion. In fact, most of them didn't even know why they were there.
Act 19:33 The Jews in the crowd pushed Alexander forward and told him to explain the situation. He motioned for silence and tried to speak.
Act 19:34 But when the crowd realized he was a Jew, they started shouting again and kept it up for two hours: "Great is Artemis of the Ephesians! Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!"
Act 19:35 At last the mayor was able to quiet them down enough to speak. "Citizens of Ephesus," he said. "Everyone knows that Ephesus is the official guardian of the temple of the great Artemis, whose image fell down to us from heaven.
Act 19:36 Since this is an undeniable fact, you should stay calm and not do anything rash.
Act 19:37 You have brought these men here, but they have stolen nothing from the temple and have not spoken against our goddess.
Act 19:38 "If Demetrius and the craftsmen have a case against them, the courts are in session and the officials can hear the case at once. Let them make formal charges.
Act 19:39 And if there are complaints about other matters, they can be settled in a legal assembly.
Act 19:40 I am afraid we are in danger of being charged with rioting by the Roman government, since there is no cause for all this commotion. And if Rome demands an explanation, we won't know what to say."
Act 19:41 Then he dismissed them, and they dispersed.

Dave wrote No legal action in several years? The man must surely be within the law.

RE Comment #190098

If you are able to show me the charging document(s) I will be impressed. I ask you to make a case better than the collection of unattached quotes so loosey collected in the posts you reference. How far would this web page go for securing an indictment? As to "on the lamb", I wonder if Mr. Korn might be wise to move on from your neck of the woods. You have not exactly responded in any sense of civility toward him. What might be untold of the communities plans to deal with him?

And regarding the Scripture verses, there is a clear parallel between the goddess worshipers who made a living promoting their idolatry in Ephesus and the evolutionists who make a very fine living promoting their _________ . You tell me what to call it because it isn't truth.

Dave, you're boring.

Though you have taught me one interesting fact. Heretofore, I had thought that "doron" started with an M.

What might be untold of the communities plans to deal with him?

You tell me what to call it because it isn't truth.

I never !!! Called boring by a pinhead. Well !!! (At least he is reading my posts-- and writing back!!!)

Any comments re the paralllel between the Ephesians (see scripture quote) and Evolutionists?

I wish I did know where he is. I would buy him dinner, for a week!

From fnxtr: Um... how about... actual research?

Information?

Facts?

Real-world observations?

Funny how some "scientists" used their "intelligence" to "design" experiments and conduct research to prove that there is no intelligent design. They create theory ex nihilo, and should we be surprised that THEY are not able provide any missing link boneheads? The definition of insanity is trying the same thing (evolutionary theory) over and over expecting different results (actual proof of ET).

"Wait til your Father gets home!" Mother Nature

"Wait til your Father gets home!" Mother Nature

"Wait til your Father gets home!" Mother Nature

Call it cautionary humor.

Dave wrote: Funny how some "scientists" used their "intelligence" to "design" experiments and conduct research to prove that there is no intelligent design.

They create theory ex nihilo, and should we be surprised that THEY are not able provide any missing link boneheads?

The definition of insanity is trying the same thing (evolutionary theory) over and over expecting different results (actual proof of ET).

Any comments re the paralllel[sic] between the Ephesians (see scripture quote) and Evolutionists?

Calling folks dolts, and ignorami is in the end effective in communicating a lack of interest in their POV. We will be talking to God about you, knowing He will listen.

Calling folks dolts, and ignorami is in the end effective in communicating a lack of interest in their POV.

That's why we took the time to debunk and refute your "POV" first.

We will be talking to God about you, knowing He will listen.

What, you think God doesn't already know about this debate, and needs you losers to keep him posted? Please. At least we're not arrogant enough to think we have to tell God about your efforts to make Christianity look like the Stoopidest Religion on Earth.

Calling folks dolts, and ignorami is in the end effective in communicating a lack of interest in their POV. We will be talking to God about you, knowing He will listen.

You could be a little more interesting if you were willing to at least come up with a new argument against evolution...

It only took one "argument" to do the job.

Sure, if the "job" was just annoying people.

We will be talking to God about you, knowing He will listen.

Who's 'we', you and your tapeworm?

Dave wrote: It only took one "argument" to do the job.

No one believes the world is flat anymore. Copernicus was harried by the church for his scientific "heresy". Odd how even yet today, when most people clearly understand that God made man and woman, you Darwinian scientists are the upholders of "the true faith". There will come a new day when no one will be able to say "transitional forms" without wondering how such a lie was able to take hold of so very many people. I believe some of the young among you will see it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: http://www.khouse.org/articles/2001/332/
Used by permission/Copyright © 1996-2007 by Koinonia House Inc., P.O. Box D, Coeur d'Alene, ID 83816

Darwinism vs. Design:
The Human Genome
by Carol Loeffler KHouse eNews Editor

The announcement of the completion of human genome mapping has brought some interesting - if not amusing and contradictory - responses from the scientific community about what the map tells us. These differences reveal the growing chasm in the scientific community over the subject of origins and the "end of science." More and more, scientists are being confronted by the fact that science has failed to answer core questions regarding the origins of the universe and life, and the evidence is contradicting much of what has been traditionally believed about Darwinism.

Two articles, which appeared on February 16, 2001, were directly contradictory to each other. They both featured scientists reacting to the genome-mapping project.

The first article, entitled "Darwin Vindicated," was written by Dr. Arthur Caplan, Ph.D., Director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. The professor asserts that "the genome reveals, indisputably and beyond any serious doubt, that Darwin was right - mankind evolved over a long period of time from primitive animal ancestors. Our genes show that scientific creationism cannot be true. The response to all those who thump their Bible and say there is no proof, no test and no evidence in support of evolution is, 'The proof is right here, in our genes.'" 1

From reading the article, one would be sure that science had once and for all proven the Bible wrong. However, Professor Caplan did not work on the genome project. On the same day, the San Francisco Chronicle published an article entitled, "Human Genome Map Has Scientists Talking About the Divine." It featured an interview with Gene Myers, who was the computer scientist at the Maryland headquarters of Celera Genomics, who actually worked out the genome mapping. Myers said, "We're deliciously complex at the molecular level...We don't understand ourselves yet, which is cool. There's still a metaphysical, magical element." He went on to say, "What really astounds me is the architecture of life...the system is extremely complex. It's like it was designed."2 As to whether this implicated a designer Myers said, "There's a huge intelligence there. I don't see that as being unscientific. Others may, but not me."

The contradiction between these two views is really a clash between two worldviews. Dr. Caplan seized upon the similarities in genetic code as proof that humans and so-called simpler life forms descended from a common ancestor. In his eagerness to affirm evolution, he excluded the possibility that an intelligent creator may have used the same functional coding system for more than one species.

Ironically, many of the same scientists who deny the complex coding system of the DNA molecule as evidence of intelligent design also support the Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI) project, which searches the far reaches of the galaxy for the signs of non-random, non-periodic radio signals as signs of alien intelligence. Their bias against God has blinded them to other possible explanations for the scientific data collected.

While the Human Genome Project has successfully produced a map of the human genome, it has yet to map the proteins encoded by our genes. Only one-third of the genes in the human body have been identified by function. 3 Furthermore, just over a third of the human genome contains repetitive sequences that scientists label "junk DNA" because, at the moment, they don't appear to have any function.4 What we do know about the DNA code is that it is digital, error-correcting, redundant, and self-replicating. For all the new advances made in genetics, we are constantly discovering how complex the DNA really is and how much more we have to learn. What has been called "the Book of Life" is more like a library.5 The field is so complex that President Bush is considering a proposal to hire a biotechnology coordinator to act as coordinator among government agencies and scientists in this rapidly changing field.6

The Battle for Minds

There are numerous admissions emerging in the technical literature about serious "problems" with random chance accounting for such complex DNA design, but it goes virtually untold by the gurus of the pop science culture of evolution and their publications.7 Few people outside the scientific disciplines read the actual literature, and the gurus aren't about to tell the public that their prize theory is in real trouble. A new book by Jonathan Wells, Icons of Evolution, is a bold exposé on the fraudulent support for evolution, which continues to be published in school textbooks and taught as fact. For example, "...evidence for Darwin's theory: peppered moths. Before 1820, most peppered moths were light colored, but during the industrial revolution they became mostly dark colored. In theory, the shift occurred because light colored moths were more visible against pollution-darkened tree trunks and thus were eaten by predatory birds. Textbooks typically illustrate this story with photographs of peppered moths on tree trunks. In the 1980s, however, biologists discovered that peppered moths in the wild don't rest on tree trunks. The textbook photographs were staged-often by gluing or pinning dead moths in place."8

In reality, the current battle of Darwinism vs. Intelligent Design seems more a matter of philosophical debate than evaluation of scientific evidence. The Darwinists are beginning to show the classic, desperate signs of a failing philosophy as their arguments become more and more irrational in an attempt to prop up something that is quickly being refuted. As the dispute rages in the future, keep in mind that making those arguments are brilliant minds: minds capable of analyzing complex data, imagining, theorizing and extrapolating. Those minds are obviously a triumph of random chance...not!

This article was originally published in the
April 2001 Personal Update NewsJournal.
For a FREE 1-Year Subscription, click here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**NOTES**

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Caplan, Arthur, "Darwin Vindicated!" MSNBC www.msnbc.com, February 21, 2001.
Abate, Tom, "Human Genome Map Has Scientists Talking About the Divine," San Francisco Chronicle,www.sfgate.com February 19, 2001.
Patrizio, Andy, "Genome Effort Hits Home," Wired News, February 17, 2001.
Belsie, Laurent, "The Short, Simple Human Gene Map," Christian Science Monitor, February 13, 2001.
Jasny, Barbara R. and Kennedy, Donald, "The Human Genome," Science Magazine, February 16, 2001.
Rosenberg, Ronald, "Bush May Hire Biotech Coordinator," The Boston Globe, February 21, 2001.
Meyers, Dr. Steve, Interview with Dr. Meyers, Director of the Center for Renewal in Science and Culture, Seattle, on the Steel on Steel Radio Program, www.steelonsteel.com, March 10, 2001.
Wells, Jonathan, "Let's Change Science Standards And Let Students Do Real Science," Philadelphia Inquirer, December 11, 2000.

No one believes the world is flat anymore. Copernicus was harried by the church for his scientific "heresy". Odd how even yet today, when most people clearly understand that God made man and woman, you Darwinian scientists are the upholders of "the true faith". There will come a new day when no one will be able to say "transitional forms" without wondering how such a lie was able to take hold of so very many people. I believe some of the young among you will see it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: http://www.khouse.org/articles/2001/332/
Used by permission/Copyright © 1996-2007 by Koinonia House Inc., P.O. Box D, Coeur d'Alene, ID 83816

Darwinism vs. Design:
The Human Genome
by Carol Loeffler KHouse eNews Editor

The announcement of the completion of human genome mapping has brought some interesting - if not amusing and contradictory - responses from the scientific community about what the map tells us. These differences reveal the growing chasm in the scientific community over the subject of origins and the "end of science." More and more, scientists are being confronted by the fact that science has failed to answer core questions regarding the origins of the universe and life, and the evidence is contradicting much of what has been traditionally believed about Darwinism.

Two articles, which appeared on February 16, 2001, were directly contradictory to each other. They both featured scientists reacting to the genome-mapping project.

The first article, entitled "Darwin Vindicated," was written by Dr. Arthur Caplan, Ph.D., Director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. The professor asserts that "the genome reveals, indisputably and beyond any serious doubt, that Darwin was right - mankind evolved over a long period of time from primitive animal ancestors. Our genes show that scientific creationism cannot be true. The response to all those who thump their Bible and say there is no proof, no test and no evidence in support of evolution is, 'The proof is right here, in our genes.'" 1

From reading the article, one would be sure that science had once and for all proven the Bible wrong. However, Professor Caplan did not work on the genome project. On the same day, the San Francisco Chronicle published an article entitled, "Human Genome Map Has Scientists Talking About the Divine." It featured an interview with Gene Myers, who was the computer scientist at the Maryland headquarters of Celera Genomics, who actually worked out the genome mapping. Myers said, "We're deliciously complex at the molecular level...We don't understand ourselves yet, which is cool. There's still a metaphysical, magical element." He went on to say, "What really astounds me is the architecture of life...the system is extremely complex. It's like it was designed."2 As to whether this implicated a designer Myers said, "There's a huge intelligence there. I don't see that as being unscientific. Others may, but not me."

The contradiction between these two views is really a clash between two worldviews. Dr. Caplan seized upon the similarities in genetic code as proof that humans and so-called simpler life forms descended from a common ancestor. In his eagerness to affirm evolution, he excluded the possibility that an intelligent creator may have used the same functional coding system for more than one species.

Ironically, many of the same scientists who deny the complex coding system of the DNA molecule as evidence of intelligent design also support the Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI) project, which searches the far reaches of the galaxy for the signs of non-random, non-periodic radio signals as signs of alien intelligence. Their bias against God has blinded them to other possible explanations for the scientific data collected.

While the Human Genome Project has successfully produced a map of the human genome, it has yet to map the proteins encoded by our genes. Only one-third of the genes in the human body have been identified by function. 3 Furthermore, just over a third of the human genome contains repetitive sequences that scientists label "junk DNA" because, at the moment, they don't appear to have any function.4 What we do know about the DNA code is that it is digital, error-correcting, redundant, and self-replicating. For all the new advances made in genetics, we are constantly discovering how complex the DNA really is and how much more we have to learn. What has been called "the Book of Life" is more like a library.5 The field is so complex that President Bush is considering a proposal to hire a biotechnology coordinator to act as coordinator among government agencies and scientists in this rapidly changing field.6

The Battle for Minds

There are numerous admissions emerging in the technical literature about serious "problems" with random chance accounting for such complex DNA design, but it goes virtually untold by the gurus of the pop science culture of evolution and their publications.7 Few people outside the scientific disciplines read the actual literature, and the gurus aren't about to tell the public that their prize theory is in real trouble. A new book by Jonathan Wells, Icons of Evolution, is a bold exposé on the fraudulent support for evolution, which continues to be published in school textbooks and taught as fact. For example, "...evidence for Darwin's theory: peppered moths. Before 1820, most peppered moths were light colored, but during the industrial revolution they became mostly dark colored. In theory, the shift occurred because light colored moths were more visible against pollution-darkened tree trunks and thus were eaten by predatory birds. Textbooks typically illustrate this story with photographs of peppered moths on tree trunks. In the 1980s, however, biologists discovered that peppered moths in the wild don't rest on tree trunks. The textbook photographs were staged-often by gluing or pinning dead moths in place."8

In reality, the current battle of Darwinism vs. Intelligent Design seems more a matter of philosophical debate than evaluation of scientific evidence. The Darwinists are beginning to show the classic, desperate signs of a failing philosophy as their arguments become more and more irrational in an attempt to prop up something that is quickly being refuted. As the dispute rages in the future, keep in mind that making those arguments are brilliant minds: minds capable of analyzing complex data, imagining, theorizing and extrapolating. Those minds are obviously a triumph of random chance...not!

This article was originally published in the
April 2001 Personal Update NewsJournal.
For a FREE 1-Year Subscription, click here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**NOTES**

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Caplan, Arthur, "Darwin Vindicated!" MSNBC www.msnbc.com, February 21, 2001.
Abate, Tom, "Human Genome Map Has Scientists Talking About the Divine," San Francisco Chronicle,www.sfgate.com February 19, 2001.
Patrizio, Andy, "Genome Effort Hits Home," Wired News, February 17, 2001.
Belsie, Laurent, "The Short, Simple Human Gene Map," Christian Science Monitor, February 13, 2001.
Jasny, Barbara R. and Kennedy, Donald, "The Human Genome," Science Magazine, February 16, 2001.
Rosenberg, Ronald, "Bush May Hire Biotech Coordinator," The Boston Globe, February 21, 2001.
Meyers, Dr. Steve, Interview with Dr. Meyers, Director of the Center for Renewal in Science and Culture, Seattle, on the Steel on Steel Radio Program, www.steelonsteel.com, March 10, 2001.
Wells, Jonathan, "Let's Change Science Standards And Let Students Do Real Science," Philadelphia Inquirer, December 11, 2000.

Dave wrote: No one believes the world is flat anymore. Copernicus was harried by the church for his scientific "heresy". Odd how even yet today, when most people clearly understand that God made man and woman, you Darwinian scientists are the upholders of "the true faith".

There will come a new day when no one will be able to say "transitional forms" without wondering how such a lie was able to take hold of so very many people. I believe some of the young among you will see it.

Two articles, which appeared on February 16, 2001, were directly contradictory to each other. They both featured scientists reacting to the genome-mapping project. The first article, entitled "Darwin Vindicated," was written by Dr. Arthur Caplan, Ph.D., Director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. The professor asserts that "the genome reveals, indisputably and beyond any serious doubt, that Darwin was right - mankind evolved over a long period of time from primitive animal ancestors. Our genes show that scientific creationism cannot be true. The response to all those who thump their Bible and say there is no proof, no test and no evidence in support of evolution is, 'The proof is right here, in our genes.'" 1

From reading the article, one would be sure that science had once and for all proven the Bible wrong. However, Professor Caplan did not work on the genome project. On the same day, the San Francisco Chronicle published an article entitled, "Human Genome Map Has Scientists Talking About the Divine." It featured an interview with Gene Myers, who was the computer scientist at the Maryland headquarters of Celera Genomics, who actually worked out the genome mapping. Myers said, "We're deliciously complex at the molecular level...We don't understand ourselves yet, which is cool. There's still a metaphysical, magical element." He went on to say, "What really astounds me is the architecture of life...the system is extremely complex. It's like it was designed."2 As to whether this implicated a designer Myers said, "There's a huge intelligence there. I don't see that as being unscientific. Others may, but not me."

Ironically, many of the same scientists who deny the complex coding system of the DNA molecule as evidence of intelligent design also support the Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI) project, which searches the far reaches of the galaxy for the signs of non-random, non-periodic radio signals as signs of alien intelligence. Their bias against God has blinded them to other possible explanations for the scientific data collected.

While the Human Genome Project has successfully produced a map of the human genome, it has yet to map the proteins encoded by our genes. Only one-third of the genes in the human body have been identified by function. 3 Furthermore, just over a third of the human genome contains repetitive sequences that scientists label "junk DNA" because, at the moment, they don't appear to have any function.4 What we do know about the DNA code is that it is digital, error-correcting, redundant, and self-replicating. For all the new advances made in genetics, we are constantly discovering how complex the DNA really is and how much more we have to learn. What has been called "the Book of Life" is more like a library.5 The field is so complex that President Bush is considering a proposal to hire a biotechnology coordinator to act as coordinator among government agencies and scientists in this rapidly changing field.6

There are numerous admissions emerging in the technical literature about serious "problems" with random chance accounting for such complex DNA design, but it goes virtually untold by the gurus of the pop science culture of evolution and their publications.7 Few people outside the scientific disciplines read the actual literature, and the gurus aren't about to tell the public that their prize theory is in real trouble. A new book by Jonathan Wells, Icons of Evolution, is a bold exposé on the fraudulent support for evolution, which continues to be published in school textbooks and taught as fact. For example, "...evidence for Darwin's theory: peppered moths. Before 1820, most peppered moths were light colored, but during the industrial revolution they became mostly dark colored. In theory, the shift occurred because light colored moths were more visible against pollution-darkened tree trunks and thus were eaten by predatory birds. Textbooks typically illustrate this story with photographs of peppered moths on tree trunks. In the 1980s, however, biologists discovered that peppered moths in the wild don't rest on tree trunks. The textbook photographs were staged-often by gluing or pinning dead moths in place."8

In reality, the current battle of Darwinism vs. Intelligent Design seems more a matter of philosophical debate than evaluation of scientific evidence. The Darwinists are beginning to show the classic, desperate signs of a failing philosophy as their arguments become more and more irrational in an attempt to prop up something that is quickly being refuted. As the dispute rages in the future, keep in mind that making those arguments are brilliant minds: minds capable of analyzing complex data, imagining, theorizing and extrapolating. Those minds are obviously a triumph of random chance...not!

Speaking of terrorism:

George W. Bush committed hate crimes of epic proportions and with the stench of terrorism (indicated in my blog).

George W. Bush did in fact commit innumerable hate crimes.

And I do solemnly swear by Almighty God that George W. Bush committed other hate crimes of epic proportions and with the stench of terrorism which I am not at liberty to mention.

Many people know what Bush did.

And many people will know what Bush did—even to the end of the world.

Bush was absolute evil.

Bush is now like a fugitive from justice.

Bush is a psychological prisoner.

Bush has a lot to worry about.

Bush can technically be prosecuted for hate crimes at any time.

In any case, Bush will go down in history in infamy.

Submitted by Andrew Yu-Jen Wang
B.S., Summa Cum Laude, 1996
Messiah College, Grantham, PA
Lower Merion High School, Ardmore, PA, 1993

“GEORGE W. BUSH IS THE WORST PRESIDENT IN U.S. HISTORY” BLOG OF ANDREW YU-JEN WANG
______________________
I am not sure where I had read it before, but anyway, it is a linguistically excellent statement, and it goes kind of like this: “If only it were possible to ban invention that bottled up memory so it never got stale and faded.” Oh wait—off of the top of my head—I think the quotation came from my Lower Merion High School yearbook.

Alert: comment spam here. Should be deleted.