Dembski Confused and a new graduate program in science education

"To replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God."?

Why would they want to do that? They don't even know if nature and human beings are created by God or not. They don't even know if there even is a God, or even what a God would do if there were a God, whatever a "God" is. Kind of putting the cart before the horses aren't they?

386sx: "To replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God."? Why would they want to do that? They don't even know if nature and human beings are created by God or not. They don't even know if there even is a God, or even what a God would do if there were a God, whatever a "God" is. Kind of putting the cart before the horses aren't they?

I am not sure why Dembski believes that the education will include a “hopping dose of Darwinism and an assault on ID” ...

How low can he go?

limbo!

I really should be the very last person to pick out spelling nits...but...as a longtime Skeptical Inquirer subscriber...it is Center 'for' Inquiry not Center 'of' Inquiry.

Dembski is not exactly the brightest bulb in the creationist box.

OT again...

This may sound like a dumb question, along the "why are there still monkeys" line but in the oppposite direction: why are the so-called transitional forms like tiktaalik and archaeopteryx extinct? The 'cloud' didn't have to resolve out like it has, so distinctly, did it? I get that we're all transitional forms and otters may be on their way to becoming something else, but... ?

In reading it, ask youself what would happen if Discovery Institute’s Center for Science and Culture, which is far less sectarian than the Center for Inquiry, were to partner with a state university to offer a program in “scientific literacy.

Now to set the record straight via the ever reliable Keaton BS filter:

I was at the on-campus presentation by Dembski and you must be referring to an off campus separate presentation. He was introduced by a member of the tenured Chemical Enfineering staff, not a pastor, who is a Phd., published, does research, has a separate spinoff company in ecological science and consulting using surfactant technology and is not a Baptist, but is a Christian.

The material handouts were from Dembski including a brochure and several of his books were for sale.

He made an excellent case for the ID hypothesis and it was equally appluadewd and criticized.

There was an organized resistance group grom ther zoology department which was rude, obnoxious, irrational, observed no decorum or respectful discourse ( in other words they bevahev like the undisciplined animals that typify the outlier community of evolutionist true believers that this movie illustrates.

In the audience were another Christian friend of mine a PhD. Nuclear Physics prof here who also is contracted as a collaborator on the European super-collider.

The chosen spokesman for the wild people was an intellligent and accomplished visiting prog Philip X. and his wild-eyed zombie wife who yelled, mispoke, and hooted during the program.

Philip X. tried to talk about the evolution of the flagella and then the two of them stalked out without permitting ant response.

In short, it was nothing like your post suggested, quite well received, illiminating, but marred by the anarchist element of the evo rabble that your evo community is birthing in certain ellements of academia.

Again, keep stoking the fire for Expelled, every little bit helps.

Oh, and you're a bold faced liar in this post.

"Dembski is not exactly the brightest bulb in the creationist box."

Actually, there's a good chance he is, if the wattage of some other folks we see here is any indication.

Well, Keith, I saw the videos, if you're referring to the Oklahoma talk, and it didn't seem to me like Dembski did all that well in the Q and A (a professor standing up and offering to explain to Dembski the exact details of the flagellum that he claims are unknown isn't the best Waterloo, is it?). Shall we find the videos and let the audience decide? Who still has them?

Venus Mousetrap: Shall we find the videos and let the audience decide? Who still has them?

That CFI chapters are more numerous than IDEA clubs is irrelevant. I'm happy its true, of course, but science isn't a popularity contest.

why are the so-called transitional forms like tiktaalik and archaeopteryx extinct?

Oh, and you’re a bold faced liar in this post.

— Keith Eaton

It’s an online course. Let’s flood it with ID’ers. Then file a class action suite when they try to flunk us all!

Keith Eaton: He made an excellent case for the ID hypothesis and it was equally appluadewd and criticized.

...the ever reliable Keaton BS filter

In the audience were another Christian friend of mine a PhD. Nuclear Physics prof

Mr. Christopher: “Dembski is not exactly the brightest bulb in the creationist box.”

CJ Colucci: "Actually, there’s a good chance he is, if the wattage of some other folks we see here is any indication."

I have to concur, Dembski is the brightest bulb, because DaveScot says so and bans anyone who IS smarter than Dembski from UcD.

another Christian friend of mine

Keith, thanks for being honest enough to emphasize that ID is all about religion, not science.

Caught people with their liar pig mask on and they can't handle it..the BS filter is sooooo effective.

Dembski has superior academmic credentials, great writer, debater, and is a quality individual.

I have been watching people like him stuff evos for two decades...it's one of my favorite forms of intertainment.

I keep expecting to see one name on these posts that is recognizable as belonging to a significant intellect in the evo community..but no luck, just 43th tier wannabees struggling to keep their sad little group identities with the pitiful bone diggers and frog dissectors.

I told you you should have ALgebra II even if you needed 3 tutors. Then you could have a hope of grasping the ID material.

Keith Eaton: I have been watching people like him stuff evos for two decades...it's one of my favorite forms of intertainment.

I think I better clarify before Keith thinks he has an ally ... I ROTFL when the courts tell the ID/Creationists to go screw themselves!

Caught people with their liar pig mask on and they can’t handle it..the BS filter is sooooo effective.

— Keith Eaton

Dembski has superior academmic credentials, great writer, debater, and is a quality individual.

— Keith Eaton

I have been watching people like him stuff evos for two decades…it’s one of my favorite forms of intertainment.

— Keith Eaton

Question - What's "intertainment" ?

I keep expecting to see one name on these posts that is recognizable as belonging to a significant intellect in the evo community..but no luck, just 43th tier wannabees struggling to keep their sad little group identities with the pitiful bone diggers and frog dissectors.

Well, Keith has certainly put us our places again, now, hasnt he. We certainly can't argue with all his verifiable facts. I mean it's not like he's just venting his spleen with a bunch of unsubstantiated claims, now, is it.

How very Christian of you, Keith. Again. I bet you're smiling at your WWJD bracelet right now, aren't you?

NJ:

...the ever reliable Keaton BS filter

Ahhhh. It reliably filters out reality, and allows the BS to pass through. Too bad the DI already has a patent on such a device.

Like I said I was there and witnessed the event nad as a grad uate of O.U. was embarrassed somewhat by the ignorance, arrogance, hubris, rudeness and lack of common decency displayed by the evos and their junior brownshirts.

I actually thought several of you might have been in their group..comon Stacy, fess up.

When I review in detail the academic record (7 degrees), extensive publishing record, awards received from major academic institutions, internships, post-grad work, lectureships, papers published in several academic fields, and worldwide invitations to lecture in major forums, I get giddy over the open stupidity of the little nobodies on this post who even have the guts to denigrate Dembski.

If there happen to be other visiting superior intellects like myself who venture onto these forums for evo-clowns I suggest you visit http://www.designinference.com/documents/PDF_Current_CV_Dembski.pdf
and gain some insight into how a true academic, professional scientist, and renaissance man is made.

Otherwise, you might get the false impression that Stacy and the seven dwarves are people with a scintilla of intellect, moral decency, accomplishment, or demonstable ability apart from lighting bunsen burners in a basement lab in some obscure diploma mill or perhaps a future chapter 11 deadend, one shot johnnie startup.

Have you groupies considered consolidating all these evo forums under one umbrella say, "Losers and Bruisers"; you know in the interest of saving bandwidth for worhwhile activities and people of some estimable value.

Hey Mike, when you wake up from your drug induced coma and discover what thermo is and how to define a system lets hear some more of your unbelievably ignorant screeds on any subject of your choice.

Guess the welfare checks don't get delivered in your county until after the fifteenth. Oh well, we can wait until then.

In the meantime you might google the term "steam table" so you know its actually a term associated with thermo calculations and not a reference to a piece of deli equipment.

"When I review in detail the academic record (7 degrees), extensive publishing record, awards received from major academic institutions, internships, post-grad work, lectureships, papers published in several academic fields, and worldwide invitations to lecture in major forums, I get giddy over the open stupidity of the little nobodies on this post who even have the guts to denigrate Dembski."

Surely this guy is a troll/parody? Either that or painfully stupid.

1)There are probably a fair number of people who comment on here who have records that outstrips Dembski's (and even if not, I could think of plenty of Professors and so on in my building that have a track record in fields relevant to evolutionary biology who are light years ahead of WAD).

2) None of this means sh!t though, its what the evidence suggests not what someone with a qualification or position states as being fact that counts. Sadly for WD, he doesn't actually have anything to back up any of his claims, as he's been told by a variety of people from a variety of fields who have offered critiques of his ideas.

3) What you have posted is essentially saying because someone is a celebrity of sorts, this makes their opinion worth listening to.

And Bill in your case it's clear you're on the dirt, waste, and trash side.

Surely this guy is a troll/parody? Either that or painfully stupid.

Holly cow Batman! Dembski-is-god worship!!!!

Stacy S.: Question - What's "intertainment" ?

...and of course the psychotic-level hubris of presuming to know more than professional scientists in their own areas of expertise.

Creationists, by definition, think they're smarter than Einstein. They think he was wrong about evolution, among other things, and they're right.

Sin of pride hardly covers it. More like atrocity of pride.

I guess that should have been "...and THAT they're right."

If there happen to be other visiting superior intellects like myself who venture onto these forums for evo-clowns

Like I said I was there and witnessed the event nad as a grad uate of O.U. was embarrassed somewhat by the ignorance, arrogance, hubris, rudeness and lack of common decency displayed by the evos and their junior brownshirts.

"When I review in detail the academic record (7 degrees), extensive publishing record, awards received from major academic institutions, internships, post-grad work, lectureships, papers published in several academic fields, and worldwide invitations to lecture in major forums, I get giddy over the open stupidity of the little nobodies on this post who even have the guts to denigrate Dembski."

While you're getting giddy, let me remind you that Dembski was invited to lecture under penalty of perjury in a major forum called Kitzmiller...

...where he would have been shredded for the charlatan that he is.

But, he neglected to attend.

That "penalty of perjury" gets them every time.

Keith Eaton: I told you you should have ALgebra II even if you needed 3 tutors. Then you could have a hope of grasping the ID material.

George, come back.

intertainment is a modern Zen practice: using the internet to attain enlightenment.

:-)

Save us....

Keith:

Bob Trivers is considered one of the great intellects of evolutionary biology. He has had since the 1970's relatively few papers and books. But every one has been outstanding. People in this business measure your worth by your intellectual contribution. Dembski's intellectual diarhhea simply means that he has generated a tremendous volume of crap, and the ability to shit large numbers of bad papers looks worse than doing nothing at all. His books are unreviewed and have been the subject of significant criticism. His papers are little more than unreviewed essays. Having been through a number of job searches, his record would not be considered stellar by any stretch.

fnxtr: why are the so-called transitional forms like tiktaalik and archaeopteryx extinct? The 'cloud' didn't have to resolve out like it has, so distinctly, did it? I get that we're all transitional forms and otters may be on their way to becoming something else, but... ?

Keith Eaton: And Bill in your case it's clear you're on the dirt, waste, and trash side.

Dembski has superior academmic credentials, great writer, debater, and is a quality individual.
I have been watching people like him stuff evos for two decades…it’s one of my favorite forms of intertainment.

any self respecting course in science education would include the well established science of evolution and address ignore the scientific vacuity of Intelligent Design.

fixed.

Karen:

Please, get the transcript! I had no idea he was there. The AMNH has a tradition of merciless critique of even their friends. They should have shredded that clown like chunk of mild cheddar.

Hi, mplavcan.
Here you go: ID debate at the American Museum of Natural History. Enjoy!

You won't seem any IDist discussing this debate for reasons that will become plain when you read it. Things get really nasty when Dr Pennock goes after Dr Dembski. (To tell the truth, it was painful to watch, and I felt sorry for Dembski, who was reduced to stammering. (After getting kicked all night, his butt ended up somewhere on 79th street.)

I'd also like to point out that Ken Miller, ever courteous, went easy on Dembski after Pennock got through with him (probably out of pity).

Wow! Does anybody know how long it took for Dembski's second asshole to heal?

OOG. That was painful. "Great" indeed.

OOG.

Keith Eaton: When I review in detail the academic record (7 degrees),

extensive publishing record,

I get giddy over the open stupidity of the little nobodies on this post who even have the guts to denigrate Dembski.

Is Dumbski-worship actually a mild form of Tourette syndrome?

Wow! Does anybody know how long it took for Dembski’s second asshole to heal?

Karen said:

Wow! Does anybody know how long it took for Dembski’s second asshole to heal?

Not me– as a matter of fact, I didn’t even know that DaveScot had been wounded.

Read the AMNH transcripts... Wow... Just wow....

If Pennock could do that to him in just 15 minutes, I understand why he didn't want to testify in Dover. The plaintiff's lawyers would have had him catatonic within the first couple of hours on the stand.

I almost forgot: here are the Natural History Magazine articles that go with the debate.

If Pennock could do that to him in just 15 minutes, I understand why he didn’t want to testify in Dover. The plaintiff’s lawyers would have had him catatonic within the first couple of hours on the stand.

Y'all do know that 'Keith Eaton' is pulling your chain? That much bad grammar and poor spelling has to be put on. If he were really dumb enough to write some of the things he's written he would have a hard time tying his shoes.

Oops-- look like I messed up the link to the articles. But you can go to the Natural History Magazine site and search for the April 2002 issue.

Karen, that was amazing!I was actually embarrassed for WD as I was reading.

May I have your permission to pass that along to some Florida legislators? :-)

Y’all do know that ‘Keith Eaton’ is pulling your chain? That much bad grammar and poor spelling has to be put on. If he were really dumb enough to write some of the things he’s written he would have a hard time tying his shoes.

I was there and ... was embarrassed somewhat by the ignorance, arrogance, hubris, rudeness and lack of common decency displayed by the evos

Keith Eaton: (((((Lies, lies, lies, lies, and more lies.)))))

Dale Husband:

Keith Eaton: (((((Lies, lies, lies, lies, and more lies.)))))

This only proves that you can lead an idiot to knowledge but you can't make him think.

The Center For Inquiry is an atheist front group.

They definitely have an agenda, and its NOT just all about science.

Bertram: The Center For Inquiry is an atheist front group. They definitely have an agenda, and its NOT just all about science.

Man, I gotta research these Intelligent Design crackpots!

What will they think of next? It seems as if in the last few years there's a concerted effort by the creationists to subvert science and free inquiry (and indeed rationality itself) by sneaking into classrooms and poisoning the minds of students with their religious superstition.

Well, actually not. It's not new. Theists and Atheists have been arguing for thousands of years. Some people don't or can't "believe" in God. Some people do. Some of each of those groups feel the need to control other people -- possibly because they feel unsure in their "belief" or for whatever reason, it really doesn't matter.

So we have theist Muslims and Christians pushing their beliefs on other people. And we have Atheists pushing their own beliefs. What's the point? So you can say "I win"?

Either way, it's "faith" because the existence of God cannot be proven and it cannot be disproved. I choose to believe in the existence of God, and the details are nobody's business. I choose to believe that God is bigger than the universe, bigger than time, bigger than our human potential for understanding reality. I believe it's foolish to assume that one is so "smart" that one can state with any degree of confidence that there is no God, because to do that you have to define God and in so doing create a circular argument. And it's arrogant as hell, to boot.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but still it's fun. Until Mr. Science can create life from scratch, create self-conscious robots, and explain human consciousness and the origin of the universe in simple English that a fool like myself can understand, I think my faith in God (and that of most of the world) will remain pretty firm because at present, he just hasn't proved his credibility.