Furthermore, there still exists a universal tree, however its roots start at the Darwinian threshold, not at the beginning of life.There was never a universal common ancestor. The Doctrine of Common Descent has deceived us. But we are deceived, too, if we think Darwin is responsible for this doctrine. Yes, Darwin did conjecture that "all the organic beings which have ever lived on this earth may be descended from some one primordial form," but in the same discussion,he said: "this inference ... is chiefly grounded on analogy and it is immaterial whether or not it be accepted. No doubt it is possible ... that at the first commencement of life many different forms were evolved."
Both from: Evolving Biological Organization CARL R. WOESE published in "Microbial Phylogeny and Evolution: Concepts and Controversies" by Jan Sapp - Science This is yet another good example of how it pays off to check the primary sources. Woese himself has corrected Intelligent Design Creationists' claims before as I outlined in Icons of ID: Carl Woese the final word?The root of the universal tree denotes the beginning of this transition phase. The tree's root denotes the point at which the first of the cell designs crosses its Darwinian threshold.
Similarly to Meyers, Dembski also made claims about Woese that are erroneousWoese scoffs at Meyer’s claim when I call to ask him about the paper. “To say that my criticism of Darwinists says that evolutionists have no clothes,” Woese says, “is like saying that Einstein is criticizing Newton, therefore Newtonian physics is wrong.” Debates about evolution’s mechanisms, he continues, don’t amount to challenges to the theory. And intelligent design “is not science. It makes no predictions and doesn’t offer any explanation whatsoever, except for ‘God did it.’” Ratcliffe as quoted by PZ Myers
I reported on this on September 26, 2004 and yet in 2006, Dembski's posting suggests that he has learned little. For those interested in exploring this issue further, I point you to a recording by Radiolab first aired on March 14, 2008. (Radiolab is an excellent resource btw for people interested in fascinating science topics. The same show has a fascinating topic on Chimeras, including a woman whose sons were not related to her but were related to her husband, and Geeps, the real story about Goat/Sheep chimeras.)Dembski argues that in a 2002 paper Woese rejects common descent There is a question about the extent of evolution, but that is a question being raised by non-ID scientists. Carl Woese in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences just a few weeks ago published a piece where he explicitly rejects common descent. What ID proponents want is to teach is the evidence for evolution as well as whatever evidence places limits on evolutionary change (like Carl Woese’s idea of lateral gene transfer). Scott and Branch are here merely playing on fears of school boards and educators. Dembski in “Darwin’s Predictable Defenders”
In other words, speciation did not happen although all the Darwinian mechanisms were still present and playing an important role. Read more about Carl Woese and Nigel Goldenfeld's Essay About Gene Swapping and Early LifeSteve Strogatz, an applied mathematician at Cornell, tells us about a radical theory that says that way back at the beginning of life, 3 billion years ago, life was a big commune of gene swapping. Nigel Goldenfeld, one of the scientists who came up with this theory, says that the idea of different species, and consequently Darwinian evolution, simply didn’t apply for the first billion years of life on Earth.
Even Richard von Sternberg seems to have been confused by Woese's argumentsIts special role in any form of life leads inexorably to the rather striking prediction that early life must have evolved in an inherently Lamarckian way, with vertical descent marginalised by the more powerful early forms of HGT[23]. Such gradual refinement through the horizontal sharing of genetic innovations would have led to the generation of a combinatorial explosion of genetic novelty, until the level of complexity, as exemplified perhaps by the multiple levels of regulation, required a transition to the present era of vertical evolution. Thus, we regard as rather regrettable the conventional concatenation of Darwin’s name with evolution, because there are other modalities that must be entertained and which we regard as mandatory during the course of evolutionary time.
Source: Sternber South Carolina Talk Of course, none of the above mentioned work has ANY relevance to ID which remains powerless in explaining anything in biology.You have leaders in the field like W. Ford Doolittle presenting evidence that there is no “Tree of Life” but, instead, a complex web of gene sharing. Likewise, Carl Woese, one of the fathers of molecular phylogenetics, thinks the data support multiple, independent origins of organisms—that the notion of a Universal Common Ancestor is erroneous. Then again, evolutionary developmental biologists like Stuart Newman have performed experiments that suggest that animal body plans originated before genomes to “encode” them. I know it sounds radical, but he and other leaders in the field of “evo-devo” think that genes support development, but they don’t provide the blueprint. Embryos self- organize, and genes provide the building materials. Finally, even the specter of Lamarck has reappeared. Lamarck’s idea was, of course, that acquired traits can be passed on to offspring. None other than “Darwin Day” organizer Massimo Pigliucci is giving second thought to Lamarckism—after all, he notes, Darwin was a Lamarck
For instance, he cites a 2000 article by molecular phylogenetics pioneer Carl Woese, claiming that Woese’s research supports common descent (81). Yet Woese’s most recent work casts doubt on common descent by arguing for multiple origins of life (“Collective Evolution and the Genetic Code,” PNAS, 2006).
6 Comments
Frank J · 12 March 2008
If no one has done it yet, consider this a direct question for every DI fellow. If they are serious about ID being science, I would expect at least a few of them to show up right here and offer their personal answers to these questions (and debate their internal differences if any):
1. Do Woese's conclusions support a 6-day Creation model (old or young Earth version)?
2. Do Woese's conclusions support concluding that the human lineage originated independently of all the others, as in a unique life-from-nonliving matter event?
JGB · 12 March 2008
Given the level of sophistication of these massive HGT models for early epochs of evolution, is it even possible for someone who continues to be willfully ignorant of basic evolutionary theory to comment/quote these authors correctly?
Daniel Gaston · 12 March 2008
Torbjörn Larsson, OM · 12 March 2008
Steven Sullivan · 12 May 2008
Sternberg conveniently leaves out that W. Ford Doolittle most certainly accepts a standard 'tree' of life for animals (including humans, of course). I heard him say this himself two weeks ago at an evolution conference at Rockefeller (http://www.rockefeller.edu/evolution/). It's only near the base that you get the 'network' topology overwhelming the 'tree'. Needless to say, he was by no means denying that evolution happens, or asserting that Intelligent Design is its engine.
Btw, one thing that came through strongly at the conference, was that several of the speakers there were not particularly enamoured of Woese's 'three kingdoms' model...to put it mildly.
Dov Henis · 13 August 2008
Life's Chirality And Circadian Rhythm,
Evidence Of Updated Darwinian Evolution
(a recompilation)
A. Updated life's concepts:
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/20/122.page#423
- Earth life consists of three strata: genes are primal organisms, genomes are evolved 2nd
stratum organisms, and cellular organisms are evolved 3rd stratum.
- Life's evolution started at genesis.
- Life's evolution is not random. It is biased, driven by culture.
B. Earliest evidences of updated Darwinian evolution:
- Life's chirality
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/122.page#387
http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14988&st=180entry327715
- Circadian rhythm
http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtopic=14988&st=135entry301299
Suggesting,
Dov Henis
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-P81pQcU1dLBbHgtjQjxG_Q--?cq=1