NOW they are in trouble...

It's OK, I'm sure they've replaced it with the soothing melody of one of Ben Stein's famous opera performances. Doesn't that sound glorious? Anyone? Anyone? Buhler?

In a written statement, the film’s three producers – Walt Ruloff, John Sullivan and Logan Craft – acknowledged that they did not seek permission, but they called the use “momentary.”

So they're actually going on the record as saying "Since we're not using it in the final for-profit product, but only in promotional materials which advertise that for-profit product, we're clear?"

I don't know. If I make a trailer for The Incredible Hulk 2, and I don't use "Sympathy for the Devil" in the movie itself - I _think_ I might have to get permission from the Rolling Stones to use it in advertising material.

ATTENTION PREMISE! FIRE YOUR LAWYERS. NOW. THIS WILL NOT HOLD UP. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING?

Sheesh, how many more copyright infringements are lurking in this celluloid disaster? Of course, when ALL the copyright holders get together and sue them into a small, smoking grease spot, it will be just more evidence that the Big Bad Darwinist Establishment is Out To Get Them.

Think Lucy Liu in Kill Bill.

Chess players indeed.

Maybe it's all part of their grand plan ... a plan to keep the movie in the news for a long, long time. After all, they ARE masters of PR, right? Maybe their sugar daddies agreed to fund not just a cheesy film but also a series of lawsuits as a way to keep Expelled and ID in the news for years to come.

Gerry L: Maybe it's all part of their grand plan ... a plan to keep the movie in the news for a long, long time. After all, they ARE masters of PR, right? Maybe their sugar daddies agreed to fund not just a cheesy film but also a series of lawsuits as a way to keep Expelled and ID in the news for years to come.

A Promo DVD is an advert - as were the pre-screenings. I rather suspect that a great many musicians and music companies would object to the idea that any music is fair game for an advert as long as it's kept below 30sec.

But any publicity is good publicity

"Help help -we're being repressed - those nasty materialist rock stars want us to pay to use their music"

This just keeps on getting better and better :-)

They might (*might*) make an argument for using Imagine, actually (going by the standards here: http://centerforsocialmedia.org/rock/backgrounddocs/bestpractices.pdf , which - being written by people who want to claim fair use whenever possible - are presumably the loosest standards) although I would certainly not be unhappy if the Lennon estate legal team decided to pursue it. But even by those standards, I don't think they could argue fair use for the Killers at all.

It's all a chess game...they'll just cleverly lay their king down on its side to lull us into a false sense of security!

WATERLOO!

Carrie: They might (*might*) make an argument for using Imagine, actually (going by the standards here: http://centerforsocialmedia.org/rock/backgrounddocs/bestpractices.pdf , which - being written by people who want to claim fair use whenever possible - are presumably the loosest standards) although I would certainly not be unhappy if the Lennon estate legal team decided to pursue it. But even by those standards, I don't think they could argue fair use for the Killers at all.

A cunning plan Balderick.

Bless the IDiots turnip-loving hearts for providing us with such amusement!

Leeroy Jenkins!!!

I wonder what William Wallace will say about this.

ALL RIGHT, LET'S DO THIS!

Imagine there's no premier, it's easy if you try.

A bit OT, but bear with me...

I think we should get a new meme started:

"With his role in 'Expelled', Ben Stein has officially jumped-the-couch."

What do you all think? :)

ellazimm: Imagine there's no premier, it's easy if you try.

Think Lucy Liu in Kill Bill.

except in the scene where Uma Thurman is removing limbs from her opponents left and right, you instead would see all the opponents stabbing themselves in the foot, repeatedly.

Did anyone ever find out if they had rights to use "Bad to the Bone" in their trailer? I notice none of the clips released since the short trailer use the song.

Wiki has the runtime of this movie at 97 minutes. IMDb has it at 90 minutes. Anymore copyright violations and this movie may end up being a "short"

Evolution and science are one thing, but you don't mess with Yoko Ono. Everybody knows that. Them boys are in some deep stuff man!!

Well, there is always the possibility that tomorrow they will issue a press release claiming this is all part of the smearing campaign, and that they hired this talented British musician, Jon Bennon, to write up this new, totally original song, "Envision", that just happens to sound a bit like some other people's work. Sure, they used a bit of "Imagine" in the prescreening versions, but that was just a placeholder for the new song. And hey, there are seven notes out there, and only so many ways to put them together. Right?

Imagine all the people, not going to see this film. 'cept on YouTube ooooo

You may say I'm a dreamer.

Miller? Miller? Mathis? Mathis? Anyone?

James F: It's all a chess game...they'll just cleverly lay their king down on its side to lull us into a false sense of security! WATERLOO!

It’s all a chess game…they’ll just cleverly lay their king down on its side to lull us into a false sense of security!

— James F

What? The Abba copyrights as well?

I "imagine" that they wanted "Imagine" for the lyric "and no religion too." But ironically there is an even more appropriate song, the rights of which they could have obtained, uh, "for a song." That would be the Napoleon IV hit "They're Coming to Take Me Away, Ha Ha!" They could have played clips of that every time some pseudoscience peddler got "expelled." The DI would certainly have appreciated an approach that was less obvious about the religious motivation for anti-evolution activism.

MattusMaximus:

In a written statement, the film’s three producers – Walt Ruloff, John Sullivan and Logan Craft – acknowledged that they did not seek permission, but they called the use “momentary.”

I think the words you're looking for are "Oops, we're screwed." I cannot wait to see how they plan to spin this tidbit. How stupid are these people?

Hi all,

Let's hope Yoko files some kind of legal injunction against Premise Media to block the film's debut tomorrow. And then perhaps she can join forces with XVIVO and PBS to file suit against Premise Media, Mark Mathis and Ben Stein for copyright infringement. With any luck, this could be a most promising legal debacle too for the Disco Tute, resulting (hopefully) in its financial ruin.

Regards,

John

Waterloo II is only 24 hrs. away and counting!!!!

"My, my, at Waterloo Napoleon did surrender
Oh yeah, and I have met my destiny in quite a similar way
The history book on the shelf
Is always repeating itself."

...and don't we know it!

With any luck, this could be a most promising legal debacle too for the Disco Tute, resulting (hopefully) in its financial ruin.

— John Kwok

There will be a special collection at church this week to pay for legal fees.

This is another part of their cunning plan to demonstrate that "Darwinism" has led to the moral decay of society. Why, even they have been corrupted. Stop "Darwinism" now before it is too late.

Unless the “Disco” Tute finds a way to “duck” another one...

I think this fiasco is well beyond the point where the Disco Institute will be obligated to recognize it as a loser and distance themselves from it, a la Dover. Aside from the intellectual property issues, there's that pesky "ID is religious" admission in the movie.

I don't know the details of the laws involved, but it seems to me that society would want fair-use laws that permitted excerpting snippets of a song like "Imagine" for such purposes as critiquing the message of the song, or illustrating the philosophy of John Lennon, or showing the spirit of that period of time. "Imagine" was intended as a social and political message, and putting a message to music gives it additional emotional weight. If you can't play a political song because of a copyright (or the originator or a political message can shut down criticism of the message by refusing to allow usage), then people can't properly discuss the song or critique its message.

If the song is being used as a soundtrack just to increase the commercial success of the film, then that's a different matter altogether, and people who made the song deserve some compensation.

Oh great, now I can't get the scene from Muriel's Wedding out of my head!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mzwbiVghnc

(Featuring Toni Collette as Muriel and Rachel Griffiths as Rhonda - and some NSFW language)

But even by those standards, I don’t think they could argue fair use for the Killers at all.

Bloggers also questioned whether another popular rock group, the Killers, had given permission for the inclusion in the film of one of their songs, "All These Things That I've Done." A spokesman for Vivendi SA's Universal Music Group, which owns the band's record label and music publisher, said licenses had been issued.

Next DI release:

"Oh, yeah? Well... a hole in the ground is... dark... and smelly, and... hmmm, maybe this isn't as easy as we thought."

Except that a critique of a song does not need to be a for-profit endeavour.

That takes it out of "fair use" free speech and into copyright infringement.

I wonder how many more songs may have been used without seeking permissions..?

Björn Ulvaeus, angry outspoken atheist, would definitely sue.

Anyone? Anyone? Buhler?

In other news, Expelled Exposed has just jumped up the Google rankings to slot #8!! (not counting the news link) Good job everyone, keep it up!
(Expelled)

As I posted in response to the cited article:

Ben Stein is not guilty of the things you allege, hayseed. The producers of the film might be but Ben Stein is simply the public face of the film. Also, making noise about four words from the song (if Timonen's representation is correct) is much ado about nothing.

Robert O'Brien: As I posted in response to the cited article: Ben Stein is not guilty of the things you allege, hayseed. The producers of the film might be but Ben Stein is simply the public face of the film. Also, making noise about four words from the song (if Timonen's representation is correct) is much ado about nothing.

Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one

Dear turdheads,

First the use of limited text music speech or whatever is not infringement unless it reaches a threshold of quantity, importance, centrality, and causes someone to be harmed, deprived of revenue due.

If you read all the elements of the infringement requirements and the defences available you can assume this might be concluded in about 2578.

Plus let's see this filed in every state in the USA ...LOL!!

Go lecture the tides goofballs.

Bourgeois_Rage: There will be a special collection at church this week to pay for legal fees.

I think Yoko Ono is probably very capable of making an argument of having been harmed. I seem to remember her as being a very persuasive woman.

Seems that they've associated a peace song with the crimes of Stalin and Hitler to make their point.

Where's the harm in that??

- - -

John Lennon can't say anything about it it because he's dead - perhaps they were relying on him being too busy burning in eternal hellfire to notice the copyright infringement.

Perhaps they are just so out of touch with the real world that they didn't realise that he's got a widow who's very protective of his legacy... ; )

On the other hand I can imagine her being wary of taking on the gun-toting lunatic fringe.. : (

Keith, even you must admit that it was stupid and inconsiderate not to have attempted to try and get permission to use the music.

"turdheads" huh? Glad to see your level of discourse is going up.

Plus let’s see this filed in every state in the USA …LOL!!

Is there a web link to this "written statement" by Ruloff et al.?

Nigel D:

It’s all a chess game…they’ll just cleverly lay their king down on its side to lull us into a false sense of security!

— James F

I thought Andrew Lloyd Webber owned the copyright to Chess...?

This was an interesting little piece of litigation ...

http://music.yahoo.com/read/news/40436362

Seems like Yoko was able to prevent a movie from opening. Harrumph! Can you just imagine?

It’s an interesting defense - free speech. I heard the same excuse being used for copying the XVIVO animation. Now Jim Lippard makes the point that this should be fair use, but legal precedent suggests that it isn’t: Now this is actually an instance where I agree with “Expelled”’s producers–this should fall within fair use guidelines. The courts, however, have already ruled otherwise. In 2005, the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in Bridgeport Music, Inc. v. Dimension Films that even a 1.5-second sample requires a license. I’d be happy to see a lawsuit on this issue result in that ruling being overturned.

Rotten Tomato update: Expelled has now reached a single-digit Tomatometer rating. It's now at 9% and heading south!

I think I'm gonna go on over to kevinwrites.typepad.com and congratulate Kevin Miller on his distinguished accompishment.

and this is how many people they've stolen things from? Explains a lot when so many Christians on my local "faith" forum just can't be bothered to cite their sources and merrily steal other people's work.

So, will Dembski be along any moment now to tell us that the filmmakers did this on purpose too? They stole a classic and beloved Beatles song in order to generate buzz?

One more day before release time. The suspense is killing me. By the time the sun rises on the morning of the 18th will there even be a legal entity known as Premise Media remaining, or will they have closed shop and run off to Canada... woops, they're there already, okay, Mexico, perhaps they're ready for some sun and tequila shots after this nightmare.

John Lennon can’t say anything about it it because he’s dead - perhaps they were relying on him being too busy burning in eternal hellfire to notice the copyright infringement. Perhaps they are just so out of touch with the real world that they didn’t realise that he’s got a widow who’s very protective of his legacy… ; ) On the other hand I can imagine her being wary of taking on the gun-toting lunatic fringe.. : (

— Dean Morrison

So, will Dembski be along any moment now to tell us that the filmmakers did this on purpose too? They stole a classic and beloved Beatles song in order to generate buzz?

— Nomad

The right to use Imagine was given to Amnesty International, don't know what the terms of the agreement is, so the morons at uncommondescent might want to stop calling Yoko tightfisted.

keith: Dear turdheads, ''' Go lecture the tides goofballs.

As a confirmed turdhead I must admit to misspelling Bueller's name. It is, of course, the fault of the Darwinist Conspiracy. (psst, Torbjörn Larsson, I couldn't find your quote on that page)

andrea: and this is how many people they've stolen things from?

Shirakawasuna said: (psst, Torbjörn Larsson, I couldn't find your quote on that page)