Hope

Some good news from Florida Citizens of Science

some bad news from Louisiana:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/05/louisiana_is_next.php

Only Panda's Thumb would gloat over the defeat of academic freedom in Florida.

[PvM: William is confused, academic freedom has won. ID's attempts have nothing to do with academic freedom. And William knows this.]

"...the theatre [Brit-sic] count for Expelled in its third week has dropped by 386 to 655..."

You're telling us there are 655 church basements with theaters!?

Heck, praise the Lord and pass the popcorn!

"Sic transit gloria"
-Ramen

Great, I was wondering why there still was so many theaters showing the Excrete in earlier statistics.

The category Smallest Drops should be a derivative, and it has a rank roughly corresponding to its economical rank. That could mean the faithful public (for some suitable definition of "faith") isn't terribly interested in supporting it.

As of yesterday, "Expelled" is no longer screening anywhere in New York City. The last theater to show it was the Regal E-Walk in Times Square, Manhattan.

William Wallace said: Only Panda's Thumb would gloat over the defeat of academic freedom in Florida. [PvM: William is confused, academic freedom has won. ID's attempts have nothing to do with academic freedom. And William knows this.]

PvM said:

William Wallace said: Only Panda's Thumb would gloat over the defeat of academic freedom in Florida. [PvM: William is confused, academic freedom has won. ID's attempts have nothing to do with academic freedom. And William knows this.]

Not to mention how William is confused about Darwinism and the holocaust arguing that Darwinism was essential for the holocaust to have happened. When William was unable to defend this position, he created a strawman that evolanders (sic) had denied any role for Darwinism in the rise of Nazism. When I presented him with comments from Luther which were directly anti-semitic and when I showed him comments by Goebbels, he doubted me being a Christian. Fascinating how showing that when on uses the same 'logic' one can link Nazism and Christianity it somehow is rejected based on the idea that those people were not Christians. And yet, when a link is made between Nazism and Malthusian ideas, there is obviously a link with Darwinism. Oh how blind we can be...

I wouldn’t say that this is blindness, per se. It’s more of a selective blocking of topics due to shifting the plank lodged in (William)’s eye. That, and trying to hit people with the plank, too.

PvM said:

I wouldn’t say that this is blindness, per se. It’s more of a selective blocking of topics due to shifting the plank lodged in (William)’s eye. That, and trying to hit people with the plank, too.

And yet the level of self deception seems to run deep.

"Only Panda’s Thumb would gloat over the defeat of academic freedom in Florida."

Only a creationist would confuse academic freedom with lying, out-of-context quoting, deception, and overall dishonesty.

James F, There is a film coming on Friday that may answer the question you’re asking. If you cannot wait, you could listen to the audio linked to at Intelligent Design and Academic Freedom by NPR. http://www.flascience.org/wp/?p=543

According to Box Office Mojo, the theatre count for Expelled in its third week has dropped by 386 to 655

William Wallace said: Only Panda's Thumb would gloat over the defeat of academic freedom in Florida. [PvM: William is confused, academic freedom has won. ID's attempts have nothing to do with academic freedom. And William knows this.]

One thing I fail to understand. What standards were used by Expelled to decide which songs and other works they had to licence and which ones they could use for free under the 'fair use' argument?

William Wallace said: Only Panda's Thumb would gloat over the defeat of academic freedom in Florida.

Actually, to not fall for the doublespeak myself, I should say that ""complexity" contains simplicity".

As an outsider, I get the impression that too many Americans switch off their critical faculties when they hear the word 'freedom'. What are the grounds for allowing high school teachers to have 'academic freedom' to teach whatever they like? Sure, they should have the freedom to espouse different views outside school but in the class they should be required to teach the curriculum which, presumably, was devised by people who are competent in the area. If teachers have any problems with the content of the curriculum they should behave in a professional manner and take it up with those who planned it, not abandon it and invent their own curriculum as they go.

Richard Simons said: As an outsider, I get the impression that too many Americans switch off their critical faculties when they hear the word 'freedom'. What are the grounds for allowing high school teachers to have 'academic freedom' to teach whatever they like? Sure, they should have the freedom to espouse different views outside school but in the class they should be required to teach the curriculum which, presumably, was devised by people who are competent in the area. If teachers have any problems with the content of the curriculum they should behave in a professional manner and take it up with those who planned it, not abandon it and invent their own curriculum as they go.

Bobby said: In Fla they are trying to get legislation so that the weaknesses in Darwin’s theory can be discussed. Right now criticism of the theory is not allowed.

And we are not talking about ‘evolution’ here. No one is saying that evolution does not happen. It is Darwinism

In Fla they are trying to get legislation so that the weaknesses in Darwin’s theory can be discussed.

And we are not talking about ’evolution’ here. No one is saying that evolution does not happen.

In my previous post I was assuming that by 'Darwinism' Bobby was just attempting to make an insulting reference to modern evolutionary theory.

Expelled had another down weekend at the boxoffice, dropping another 51% from the previous weekend. Looks like it'll gross about $7 mil. at the box office, and they'll probably just give the DVD away. It will mostly collect dust in Church libraries.

Well Bobby has conclusively demonstrated that he doesn't know the meaning of the words creationism, "Darwinism" or evolution. He claims to believe that evolution occurred (by that we can assume he means microevolution, however he defines that), but he refuses to acknowledge the evidence for macroevolution (no I don't want him to try to define that either).

Criticism of Darwin is not allowed huh, well criticize away. Got any evidence that Darwin was wrong? Got any evidence for "intelligent intervention". Any and all evidence is welcome as it always is in real science. You don't need legislation to criticize theories in science, all you need is evidence.

Having no explanation for any of the evidence and no alternative to present, he simply tries to confuse the issue by using terms ambiguously until everyone gets frustrated and gives up. Fine Bobby, remain in ignorance, but everyone can see that you have no answers, only word games. If we ignore him I'm sure he will eventually go away.

BUT -- there's a report that the Florida house passed this bill this morning!!!???

Ernie said:

William Wallace said: Only Panda's Thumb would gloat over the defeat of academic freedom in Florida. [PvM: William is confused, academic freedom has won. ID's attempts have nothing to do with academic freedom. And William knows this.]

Mr. Willy, Is not only the people of PT "gloating". The people of the great state of Florida are also celebrating that we are not going back to the Dark Ages.

You don’t need legislation to criticize theories in science, all you need is evidence.

PvM: It looks very bad for you to add to a person's comments like that, even if you make it clear that the interjection is yours. It's too much like the loudspeaker in the ceiling on UD.

Let people say what they want to say, and disagree with them in further comments.