Big Textbook Vote in Texas Today

“I don’t think we should sit here and think we have the capability to write standards.” There’s a difference, he says, between writing standards and approving standards. Other board members have good intentions, he says: “I just think they don’t know what they’re doing.”

votes made.

all fell right along party lines.

Texans lose.

*sigh*

Texas school children will learn how Thomas Aquinas fought at the Alamo. Yee, ha!

not far from wrong. evidently, they will be learning how Calvin was the prime motivator of the enlightenment, and Jefferson Davis was the one primarily responsible for the abolition of slavery.

Who was that "Lincoln" guy, anyway

:(

...oh, but hey, I think 'ol Tommy Jefferson made it back in by the skin of his teeth.

I'm sure they figured the kids would confuse him with Jefferson Davis, or something.

This makes me glad that we kicked their asses at the battle of Glorietta.

Jesse said: This makes me glad that we kicked their asses at the battle of Glorietta.

Reed,

It's chutzpah, not chutzpa. But that's just a slight error. More importantly that today is a sad day in Texan educational history. Hopefully other states won't follow suit, but since Texas is a major purchaser of textbooks, I fear that this may have an adverse impact on the content of history textbooks around the country.

Sincerely,

John

what do people think will be the impact of California's recent attempt to counter Texas?

MrG said:

Jesse said: This makes me glad that we kicked their asses at the battle of Glorietta.

Sounds like a fellow Coloradan. I've got Texan friends so I should stay mum on that ... and besides, while we may have Boulder here we also have Colorado Springs and the like, where similar mentalities are by no means unknown.

I wonder how the invasion of the Soviet Union by Nazi Germany will be treated? It, and the bombing of Pearl Harbor were the nails in the Axis's coffin. I have no doubt Pearl Harbor will be adequitly handled, but what of the titanic tank battle at Kursk; the 900 day siege at Leningrad, the monumental struggle at Stalingrad; oh History, I shudder. After all, Stalin was the Communist Devil (I somewhat agree). To admit that the Nazis broke their back in Russia might be a step too far for these history denying wingnuts.

robert van bakel said: I wonder how the invasion of the Soviet Union by Nazi Germany will be treated? It, and the bombing of Pearl Harbor were the nails in the Axis's coffin. I have no doubt Pearl Harbor will be adequitly handled, but what of the titanic tank battle at Kursk; the 900 day siege at Leningrad, the monumental struggle at Stalingrad; oh History, I shudder. After all, Stalin was the Communist Devil (I somewhat agree). To admit that the Nazis broke their back in Russia might be a step too far for these history denying wingnuts.

At least we know what the limits of human stupidity and dishonesty are. Add in some violence (not their bag, of course) and they'd be in history books - or dictionaries - themselves.

I can't believe that the content of US textbooks and the subject matters covered in US schools is decided on by politicians. Everyone knows politicians care more about getting elected than doing the right thing, so that's following partisan lines and screw the greater good.

*headshakes*

There isn't much left to be proud of in the UK, and it might have serious flaws, but the National Curriculum is a damn good thing.

I hate to break it to you Coloradans but you've got another war with Texas coming up. Barry Arrington, ex-Texan, webmaster at Uncommon Descent and self-described as having "a proven track record of conservative activism, cutting taxes, fiscal conservatism, social conservatism and ... an education reformer and passionately pro-life," is running for the Colorado state Board of Education:

http://www.coloradostatesman.com/content/991837-board-education-races-upcoming-three-districts

Lucky you! Arrington promises that pushing ID "is not on his agenda" so you don't have to worry about that, given how honest IDers always are about their motives.

John Pieret said: I hate to break it to you Coloradans but you've got another war with Texas coming up. Barry Arrington, ex-Texan, webmaster at Uncommon Descent and self-described as having "a proven track record of conservative activism, cutting taxes, fiscal conservatism, social conservatism and ... an education reformer and passionately pro-life," is running for the Colorado state Board of Education: http://www.coloradostatesman.com/content/991837-board-education-races-upcoming-three-districts Lucky you! Arrington promises that pushing ID "is not on his agenda" so you don't have to worry about that, given how honest IDers always are about their motives.

Man! History just cowers and craps in its pants when it meets Texas schoolbooks. Even their warehouse, Texas Schoolbooks Depository Building, in Dallas, TX changes history!

Natman said: I can't believe that the content of US textbooks and the subject matters covered in US schools is decided on by politicians.

Everyone knows politicians care more about getting elected than doing the right thing, so that's following partisan lines and screw the greater good.

stevaroni said: That's one of the advantages of the British system. Loose an election there, and you're gone. Not only that, but you guys can call an election whenever things get totally dysfunctional and thereby force a reboot. Here, elections take so long there's still ample time for "lame ducks" to cause serious mischief.

As far as how accurate textbooks are, and "fact Checking" - I had occasion a few years ago to be in an area high school where I live in Indiana. I picked up a World History textbook off a teacher's desk and opened it at random to a page that happened to deal with Roman history.

There, in a little colored box at the top of the page I learned that Julius Caesar was the first Emperor of the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE.

I decided I must have passed into some kind of "Alternate Universe"...say, maybe that's the problem? Texas exist in an Alternate Universe?

But I still wonder today how many students were taught that incorrect information about Julius Caesar, or did the teacher know enough to correct the error?

My bet is they didn't, but that may just be the attitude of a grumpy old man fed up with stupidity.

One can only hope the new history, etc. is taught only as well as math, science and English are taught. I think textbooks should have mistakes, which can be pointed out and considered, to make the point that something printed (much less something posted on the Internet) should not necessarily be accepted at face value. I don't think this is what the Texas revisionists had in mind.

Farcall said: But I still wonder today how many students were taught that incorrect information about Julius Caesar, or did the teacher know enough to correct the error?

OgreMkV said: We'd be having elections every three months.

Doc Bill said: Thanks to the Board, Texas school children will learn how Thomas Aquinas fought at the Alamo. Yee, ha!

Jesse said:

MrG said:

Jesse said: This makes me glad that we kicked their asses at the battle of Glorietta.

Sounds like a fellow Coloradan. I've got Texan friends so I should stay mum on that ... and besides, while we may have Boulder here we also have Colorado Springs and the like, where similar mentalities are by no means unknown.

I live about 90 minutes south of Glorietta. There were New Mexicans in that battle too. The guy who introduced my parents to each other has reenacted the battle multiple times. Oh, and if Texas wants to secede again, they can have Hobbs, Roswell, Lovington, Unice, Loving, etc... We keep Carlsbad and get the rest of the Guadalupe mountains in exchange.

nmgirl said:

Jesse said:

MrG said:

Jesse said: This makes me glad that we kicked their asses at the battle of Glorietta.

Sounds like a fellow Coloradan. I've got Texan friends so I should stay mum on that ... and besides, while we may have Boulder here we also have Colorado Springs and the like, where similar mentalities are by no means unknown.

I live about 90 minutes south of Glorietta. There were New Mexicans in that battle too. The guy who introduced my parents to each other has reenacted the battle multiple times. Oh, and if Texas wants to secede again, they can have Hobbs, Roswell, Lovington, Unice, Loving, etc... We keep Carlsbad and get the rest of the Guadalupe mountains in exchange.

now be honest, we have to give up red river and ruidoso also.

Harvey Klehr was in the Soviet Union when it fell. A center left historian Harvey was innvited by Yeltsin to view the KGB documents that demonstrate massive extent to which all of you leftists here have your attitudes skewed by materialistic communism. One for One with Venona content. Glenn Beck is conducting a wonderful set of history lessons every friday on his TV show. Learn some history and lose you progressive values.

arigg said: Harvey Klehr was in the Soviet Union when it fell. A center left historian Harvey was innvited by Yeltsin to view the KGB documents that demonstrate massive extent to which all of you leftists here have your attitudes skewed by materialistic communism. One for One with Venona content. Glenn Beck is conducting a wonderful set of history lessons every friday on his TV show. Learn some history and lose you progressive values.

Jesse said: <sarcasm>
What a wonderful disconnect! We are clearly all communists and communism is bad, therefore anything that we believe must be wrong! You have opened my eyes!
</sarcasm>

"...the real black helicopter / new world order / tinfoil hat crowd."

Racism. Simple, thinly disguised (sometimes) racism.

There was no Tea Party when there were other DemocratIC presidents. These people weren't organized and foaming at the mouth about "socialism," "taking my guns away'" "President = Hitler" until we elected a president with an African father.

Ask yourself this: Suppose we had elected a Democrat as president, with EXACTLY the same family history as Barack Obama (born in Hawaii, father deserted, etc.), and exactly the same politics and stated goals and policies... BUT instead of Kenyan his father was Swedish and his last name was Halvorsen! Would there be "birthers"? Would there be a Tea Party at all?

He would have political opponents, of course, but nothing like this insanity.

arigg said: Harvey Klehr was in the Soviet Union when it fell. A center left historian Harvey was innvited by Yeltsin to view the KGB documents that demonstrate massive extent to which all of you leftists here have your attitudes skewed by materialistic communism. One for One with Venona content. Glenn Beck is conducting a wonderful set of history lessons every friday on his TV show. Learn some history and lose you progressive values.

The TP is a strange beast indeed. You have your tinfoil hat black chopper types. I hate conspiracy theory people with a passion. If you show up with a conspiracy theory and you don't want me to think that you are lower than whale shit on the bottom of the ocean, you had better have some real evidence to back it up. Or not really be serious. Stupidity or malice are almost always a much better explanation for bad events that transpire.

You also have the religious right trying to take over the TP. The fundamentalists are losing their political grip and the religious right sees the TP as a convenient vehicle to maintain power. If they are successful, the TP will fall apart.

Then you have the genuine "WTF is happening and WTF are we going to experience hyperinflation" types. If the TP survives, they are the ones you want steering the ship. They are going to be the most open to reason and discussion.

stevaroni said: If there really was a God and this really was a kind and just world, there would be an 11th commandment “Thou shalt not talk about thing you don’t know about”. Or maybe a magic spray that made it stop. Now that would be worth a Nobel any day.

arigg said: Harvey Klehr was in the Soviet Union when it fell. A center left historian Harvey was innvited by Yeltsin to view the KGB documents that demonstrate massive extent to which all of you leftists here have your attitudes skewed by materialistic communism. One for One with Venona content. Glenn Beck is conducting a wonderful set of history lessons every friday on his TV show. Learn some history and lose you progressive values.

arigg said: Harvey Klehr was in the Soviet Union when it fell. A center left historian Harvey was innvited by Yeltsin to view the KGB documents that demonstrate massive extent to which all of you leftists here have your attitudes skewed by materialistic communism. One for One with Venona content. Glenn Beck is conducting a wonderful set of history lessons every friday on his TV show. Learn some history and lose you progressive values.

Isn't it sad that American right-wingers now use the word "progress" as though it were dirty and wrong?

arigg said: ... that demonstrate massive extent to which all of you leftists here have your attitudes skewed by materialistic communism.

When this has happened in the past, the general population has woken up to kick out the nutters. What are the options if the reasonable Texans wake up to discover that they are yet again a laughing stock?

stevaroni said:

arigg said: ... that demonstrate massive extent to which all of you leftists here have your attitudes skewed by materialistic communism.

just what the hell is materialistic communism supposed to be? Isn't the idea of the commune that nobody owns anything? How can you be materialistic when you've got nothing?

This conversation would be so much easier if the right-wing nut-jobs would all go out any buy dictionaries.

stevaroni said:

Jesse said: <sarcasm>
What a wonderful disconnect! We are clearly all communists and communism is bad, therefore anything that we believe must be wrong! You have opened my eyes!
</sarcasm>

I find myself bumping more and more into the Tea Party fringe these days. Not the "Hey - what are we going to do about this giant deficit" types, but the real black helicopter / new world order / tinfoil hat crowd. They invariably try to convince me that Obama is a socialist. To which I always ask "Well, first, define 'socialism' and how have his actions so far advanced those goals?" So far this year exactly one person has cogently defined socialism, though he was unable to apply it to part B of the question. On the plus side, that's one more person than was able to tell me what the 2nd law of thermodynamics actually said after telling me that evolution violates it, but those people are, admittedly, a smaller sample size and one I'm much less likely to run into with a table full of pamphlets outside the Post Office. If there really was a God and this really was a kind and just world, there would be an 11th commandment "Thou shalt not talk about thing you don't know about". Or maybe a magic spray that made it stop. Now that would be worth a Nobel any day.

stevaroni said:

arigg said: ... that demonstrate massive extent to which all of you leftists here have your attitudes skewed by materialistic communism.

just what the hell is materialistic communism supposed to be? Isn't the idea of the commune that nobody owns anything? How can you be materialistic when you've got nothing? This conversation would be so much easier if the right-wing nut-jobs would all go out any buy dictionaries. There's probably plenty of room for one between the Bible and the collected memoirs of Barry Goldwater on the 0otherwise empty bookshelf.

I plead guilty. I am a materialistic Deistic Conservative Republican with very, very pronounced Libertarian leanings who recognizes Charles Darwin and Alfred R. Wallace as my Saints Peter and Paul, along with such notable "saints" like Theodosius Dobzhansky, Ernst Mayr, George Gaylord Simpson, Julian Huxley, and, for the sake of inclusiveness, G. Evelyn Hutchinson, Robert MacArthur and Stephen Jay Gould.

Michael J said: When this has happened in the past, the general population has woken up to kick out the nutters. What are the options if the reasonable Texans wake up to discover that they are yet again a laughing stock?

Dale Husband said:

Michael J said: When this has happened in the past, the general population has woken up to kick out the nutters. What are the options if the reasonable Texans wake up to discover that they are yet again a laughing stock?

Very slim, since the nutcases are Republicans and Texas has become a very Republican state. But it was also crappy when Democrats totally dominated it for nearly a century.

McLeroy sorry

What's with the assumption that socialism = communism?

It seems thrown around a lot by certain aspects of American politics, but there's 60 years of European history that shows that socialism =/= communism. And if anything, communism is the ultimate conservatism. Nothing stagnates things more (or retains traditional values, if you want to be semantic) than levelling the playing field and keeping everyone the same. If the biological world was of a communal nature then it would eliminate one of the driving forces behind evolution (to bring things back to more relevant topic).

and, for the sake of inclusiveness, G. Evelyn Hutchinson, Robert MacArthur and Stephen Jay Gould

I'm going to tell Ken Miller you failed to drop his name in this list.

It's obvious you don't love him any more.

Little Lord McLeroy was defeated in the Republican primary by a conservative but rational Christian Republican. Cynthia Dunbar, one of the other religious regressives, decided not to run and picked an annointed successor who was also beaten in the primary. There is hope for Texas' future, but it didn't come soon enough to stave off this nutty set of education standards. TFN is trying to see that these standards are not implemented in the way the zealots intended. With some help, I believe they can.

Just to be clear - not everyone in Texas is a right-wing ideologue. Progressives have had a strong, vital role in the political discourse of Texas for many years. Ralph Yarborough, LBJ, Ann Richards, Molly Ivens, Jim Hightower and many others have championed a free, well-educated Texas.

AND for our friends in far West Texas (sometimes known as New Mexico), remember that Texas still holds the deed to everything east of The Rio Grande.

II + II = IV Now that the State Board of Education has purged Satan from the science and history standards, it's time for them to straighten out math. Our students are still being taught to cipher with Arabic numerals. We don't need Mohammed to tell us how to add two and two. If Roman numerals were good enough for Christ, they're good enough for the little peasants who attend public schools in Texas. Hugh Lowe Austin

Well, at least with Roman numerals you can't get a zero on a math test...

Henry J said: Well, at least with Roman numerals you can't get a zero on a math test...

Natman said: What's with the assumption that socialism = communism? It seems thrown around a lot by certain aspects of American politics, but there's 60 years of European history that shows that socialism =/= communism.