Ark Encounter Watch web site to track park's progress and controversy

I propose an even modester challenge, which Mr. Ham can do 'on paper' while the construction is going on: simply tell us the cargo manifest for your ark. I.e., define the biblical kind.

Y'all just just don't get it, do ya.

Oceanus or Cetus, anyway one of them gods, helped design the ark. So it was a miracle and we don't have to do no esplainin'.

So there.

To be really biblical and god-like, won't Ham have to do the incest thing too? Like Noah and his sons did after Teh Ark grounded on Ararrat?

J-Dog said: To be really biblical and god-like, won't Ham have to do the incest thing too? Like Noah and his sons did after Teh Ark grounded on Ararrat?

my, crazier than usual. Good ol' dmab.

As I, and others, have mentioned on other websites, this may be as close as they come to doing an actual experiment, and the building of the ark should be encouraged. Keep pushing that challenge to Ken Ham, or anyone who will listen. If they're so sure they're right, then this is a good opportunity to demonstrate the possibility of one of the stories.

Personally, I'd like to see some of the tv charlatans get swallowed by a big fish to see if the tale of Jonah in the belly of a fish for three days is plausible.

btw, if the Ark project proves too difficult or expensive, then perhaps they could try building the Ark of the Covenant instead--that way, they wouldn't need to change too much on their letterhead or websites.

Skip....apparently a full-scale ark has already been built in the Netherlands.

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=58517

Some commenter says it is only half the size of the Biblical one but I can find no reference to support this.

Wonder how Ham's will differ?

-dan

Fire, materials and design The fire started around 7:30 pm in a small kiosk adjacent to the centre's mini-golf course. Eventually the burning kiosk slumped against the exterior of the building. This part of the building was clad in a bitumen-coated steel material called Galbestos, which had limited fire-resistance qualities. This set fire to the interior sound-proofing material, which also had poor fire-resistance qualities, causing an explosion which ignited the highly flammable acrylic sheeting which covered the rest of the building. The fire spread quickly across the sheeting on the leisure centre walls and roof, and through vents which were not properly fire proofed. The acrylic melted, which allowed more oxygen to enter and dropped burning melted material, both starting other fires and injuring those trying to escape. The building's open-plan design included many unblocked internal spaces that acted as chimneys adding to the conflagration.

Daniel J. Andrews said: Skip....apparently a full-scale ark has already been built in the Netherlands. http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=58517 Some commenter says it is only half the size of the Biblical one but I can find no reference to support this. Wonder how Ham's will differ? -dan

If you can build the vessel using the same methods Noah is supposed to have used, load it up with approximately the same number of animals, and eight people can successfully care for them on the water for the same length of time the flood was supposed to have taken I’ll be the first to start tithing to your museum.

If you don't insist on full-scaleness or floating, there's lots of them. There's one around here too.

I don't know how you can tell if it's built to Biblical specifications since, AFAIK, nobody's quite sure how big a cubit was. From the Bible you could get the ratio of the length to the width but not the actual size of the vessel.

Wrong. 1/2 the length, 1/3rd width. http://www.pbase.com/paulthedane/noahs_ark I have seen it advertised as a ‘full-scale’ reproduction including, apparently, seaworthiness. At 1/6th the biblical surface area it appears to be built on a modern barge (steel I’ll bet).

Of course reimagined Arks are not only in the Netherlands. Used to drive by this (still) unfinished one in Frostburg, MD. http://www.godsark.org/

Timothy Beal dedicates a chapter to it in _Roadside Religion_.

I have an idea.

Surely, some TV company could use this as a theme for a TV reality show (a bit like I'm a celibrity, get me out of here)

You could have teams of 8 people, all the materials, along with the animals etc. and see how they get on.

Skip said: Mr. Ham, why not spend that hundred million plus proving what you’ve so adamantly insisted all these years: prove the Ark is physically possible. If you can build the vessel using the same methods Noah is supposed to have used, load it up with ... etc ...

Oceanus or Cetus, anyway one of them gods, helped design the ark. So it was a miracle and we don’t have to do no esplainin’.

I'm in the "do the experiment" group.

They've been claiming for years that the ark was physically, scientifically possible. The magical miracle was the rain that drowned all the sinners of all ages, so that Jehovah could get them into Hell on an accelerated schedule.

Unfortunately, my ethical system argues against cruelty to animals.

Otherwise, I'd try to organize a group to build an ark, or buy that one off that guy in the Netherlands, load below decks with animals, and challenge eight creationists to crew it up and spend forty days in it on the high seas.

Is there no RSS feed for the new site?

No, there is no RSS feed on the new site, but it's been something I've been wanting to add to the core system, penguinsites.com, my web hosting platform, for a while. So maybe this will be a good time to write one. I'll look into that.

Just remember, the eight people taking care of the ark have to be infected with every human-specific disease in the world!

So math and science will continue to go down the tube in the United States (see below).

Response #1: Obama says all we need is a Sputnik moment, whatever the hell that is.

Response #2: God will save us all with a new Ark that will hold selected individuals to be named later. And rest assured, folks like those in KY and LA are doing their best to bring those scores down even more.

"The three-yearly OECD Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) report, which compares the knowledge and skills of 15-year-olds in 70 countries around the world, ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science and a below-average 25th for mathematics."

I have an objection to your experiment!!! What did those poor animals do to deserve being locked up for a year with a bunch of creationists. How would you feel being in close quarters with a bunch of 4th century BC nut cases. The animal didn't do a thing to deserve treatment like that. Why don't we just put two of every kind of creationist in there with food and water for a year and see what happens.(I'll bet there's more than a few commandments broken before they're done)

Hong Kong has its arch already, others are planned in China and Germany.

sparc said: Hong Kong has its arch already, others are planned in China and Germany.

(from their web site): ... five levels each with a different theme, including Ark Expo, Treasure House, Ark Life Education House and a seaside restaurant. The top floor is Noah's Resort.

Obama says all we need is a Sputnik moment

If global warming isn't a "Sputnik moment", nothing is.

Politicians will ask for a glass of water, and when you offer them a mug, will say: "I asked for a GLASS of water."

this whole ark business is a tremendous waste of money, effort, and time.

frankly, I find it more tragic than humorous.

Ichthyic said: Obama says all we need is a Sputnik moment If global warming isn't a "Sputnik moment", nothing is. Politicians will ask for a glass of water, and when you offer them a mug, will say: "I asked for a GLASS of water." this whole ark business is a tremendous waste of money, effort, and time. frankly, I find it more tragic than humorous.

Daniel J. Andrews said: Skip....apparently a full-scale ark has already been built in the Netherlands. http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=58517 Some commenter says it is only half the size of the Biblical one but I can find no reference to support this.

Looking at the Dutch exercise in stupidity I note that the builder used steel cross braces and iron beam hangers. The hull appears to be clinker planked - not carvel built and, according to Wikipedia, was built over a steel frame; evidence confirming or denying the wiki article would be welcome. Given these weaknesses I would expect the Huiber's vessel to float all of 2 hours before going under.

Mr Ham's monstrous erection will probably require large quantities of steel and concrete in the construction of the hull as well as the base, will certainly include unbiblical screws, bolts and modern glues.

On a side note the largest seaworthy wooden ship ever was possibly a barge - Caligula's giant ship at 104 metres, the largest practicable wooden vessel was the Wyoming at 100 metres. It twisted and buckled requiring constant pumping. Both these were carvel built.

300 cubits is about 140 metres

Mr Ham's monstrous erection

Mike Elzinga said: One of the clearest indicators that Ham and organizations like his have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus is that these organizations make little effort to relieve hunger and suffering let alone engage in the process of educating people and enabling them to adapt to changing job opportunities and global economies. They are basically about ruthless exploitation.

DavidK said: So math and science will continue to go down the tube in the United States (see below). Response #1: Obama says all we need is a Sputnik moment, whatever the hell that is. Response #2: God will save us all with a new Ark that will hold selected individuals to be named later. And rest assured, folks like those in KY and LA are doing their best to bring those scores down even more. "The three-yearly OECD Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) report, which compares the knowledge and skills of 15-year-olds in 70 countries around the world, ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science and a below-average 25th for mathematics."

DavidK said: So math and science will continue to go down the tube in the United States (see below). Response #1: Obama says all we need is a Sputnik moment, whatever the hell that is.

OgreMkV said:

DavidK said: So math and science will continue to go down the tube in the United States (see below). Response #1: Obama says all we need is a Sputnik moment, whatever the hell that is.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/07/education/07education.html Obama says we have our sputnick moment...

Will the ark be built by a 600-year-old man and his three 500-year-old sons? If not, then the ark will not truly be built by biblical methods.

Mr Ham’s monstrous erection

Michael Suttkus, II said: Just remember, the eight people taking care of the ark have to be infected with every human-specific disease in the world!

OgreMkV said: Sorry David, I probably need to read the rest of your post. But the times article does say that Obama has declared the PISA report as our 'sputnik' moment.

Oops, editing goof. The penultimate sentence should read "...cure cancer and don't share/charge us an exorbiant..."

Thank you for the info on the size of the Netherland ark, Otto, John. I should have done some more digging.

From Thrutch's note above, the ark experiment could be simplified (no animals, no locking people in for a year although there are some politicians it would be nice to see the back of for a period of time...). Just stick the ark in a lake for a year and see how it fares.

What an incredible waste of money. Just incredible.
When I see this kind of expenditure going toward this rubbish in the name of God and His alleged glory, it makes me ill. Why not use this $$ to alleviate suffering instead of Jesus-friendly infotainment. Vile.

Minor tirade:
I'm with everyone on understanding evolution and developing a kind of biological literacy worthy of the word literacy. The story of evolution is a beautiful and awesome story and the theory is elegant and amazing. Ham et al's assault on it is worthy of scorn. It's moronic.
But I think it's pretty lame how much people who want scientific literacy are so willing to partner evolution up with pro-military technology.
But propping your success up with the success of our competition with China in a global growth market is pretty crazy. All that science and math literacy and test-preparedness and so on is less than worthless in the hands of more engineers, basic researchers, and economists colluding to make more garbage for more people, to use more stuff more efficiently, or to get more people going farther and faster. It will still drive climate change.
The Sputnik moment that has happened is the reality of climate change, the toxification of our air, water, and soil, the destruction of our common ecosystems, the erosion of enormous amounts of top soil, and the practically incalculable number of species industrialized humans flush down the toilet every day. All of the evolutionary literacy in the world amounts to zero if the most well-versed people in evolution - whether in the U.S., China, or anywhere - consume and design so much stuff that there are fewer and fewer organisms around to evolve.

which one of these biblical worthies on the ark got to save 'the crabs'?

Peter said: But I think it's pretty lame how much people who want scientific literacy are so willing to partner evolution up with pro-military technology.

eric said:With Sputnik, the Soviets did something we couldn't do but thought we were best at.

I wonder if Walt Brown even wants them to build this...

Peter said: Minor tirade:

Gas is $7 a gallon in the UK

Michael Roberts said: Gas is $7 a gallon in the UK

Peter Henderson said: ... With all that wood floating around there's bound to be a fire risk...

Pierce R. Butler said:

Peter Henderson said: ... With all that wood floating around there's bound to be a fire risk...

Check out chapter 6 of Genesis - the whole boat is supposed to have one window and one entryway, and to be coated with pitch (that's distilled tar or petroleum - inhale those fumes, folks!) both internally and externally. Can you say, "Pyromaniac's delight"?

Pierce R. Butler said:

Peter Henderson said: ... With all that wood floating around there's bound to be a fire risk...

Check out chapter 6 of Genesis - the whole boat is supposed to have one window and one entryway, and to be coated with pitch (that's distilled tar or petroleum - inhale those fumes, folks!) both internally and externally. Can you say, "Pyromaniac's delight"?

W. H. Heydt said:

Michael Roberts said: Gas is $7 a gallon in the UK

US or Imperial? Hard to say - we all use litres now! --W. H. Heydt Old Used Programmer

OgreMkV said:

Peter said: Minor tirade:

If you don't mind, I'd like to mention a couple things regarding this. It isn't totally on topic, so forgive the digression or move to the BW. Much of our 'achievements' come from consumerism. We don't have a 'sputnik' moment or the 'cold war' to spur technological advances, but what we do have is consumerism. Why do you think the really high tech batteries, super-capacitors, and mini-fuel cells are coming from? They are coming from people's need to have a long lasting source of power for their cell phone. Do you honestly think that if gasoline was $10.00 a gallon, that the US wouldn't have way more effecient vehicles and a number of options for hybrids and the like. Do you think that if electricity for your home was $0.30 a KWhr, that solar and wind power wouldn't be on every roof? I'll admit that it's not a perfect solution, but it's the one we have and it does work... up to a point. If government quit supplamenting oil/gas, then we'd have a lot more progress toward wind farms, solar advances, fusion, etc, etc. rant over. Apologize for the digression.

John Finch said:

W. H. Heydt said:

Michael Roberts said: Gas is $7 a gallon in the UK

US or Imperial? Hard to say - we all use litres now! --W. H. Heydt Old Used Programmer

W. H. Heydt said:

Michael Roberts said: Gas is $7 a gallon in the UK

US or Imperial? US --W. H. Heydt Old Used Programmer

Pierce R. Butler said:

Peter Henderson said: ... With all that wood floating around there's bound to be a fire risk...

Check out chapter 6 of Genesis - the whole boat is supposed to have one window and one entryway, and to be coated with pitch (that's distilled tar or petroleum - inhale those fumes, folks!) both internally and externally. Can you say, "Pyromaniac's delight"?

Michael Roberts said:

Pierce R. Butler said:

Peter Henderson said: ... With all that wood floating around there's bound to be a fire risk...

Check out chapter 6 of Genesis - the whole boat is supposed to have one window and one entryway, and to be coated with pitch (that's distilled tar or petroleum - inhale those fumes, folks!) both internally and externally. Can you say, "Pyromaniac's delight"?

What if some dinos were fire-breathing?

All I want to know is (and I wish I could have asked Gov. Beshear this question in person), is...
WILL THERE BE UNICORNS ON THE ARK? Or were they just a part of the "Horse 'Kind'"?

Mike in Ontario, NY said: All I want to know is (and I wish I could have asked Gov. Beshear this question in person), is... WILL THERE BE UNICORNS ON THE ARK? Or were they just a part of the "Horse 'Kind'"?

So, Noah, his 3 sons, and their 4 wives, all constructed this huge Ark per the Bible? It doesn't say anything about enlisting the aid of other workers. Just how many years did it take them to complete this task? Where did they get all the gopher wood - did they strip the land bare? The Bible also says not only did they take pairs of every breathing creature, but also food for all those creatures and themselves. What a monumental task that itself might have been and no refrigerators to boot. And people really believe this stuff?

andy said: which one of these biblical worthies on the ark got to save 'the crabs'?

Call me frivolous, but I really hope the children of Ham are working on the Ark.

What a monumental task that itself might have been and no refrigerators to boot.

jasonmitchell said:

Mike in Ontario, NY said: All I want to know is (and I wish I could have asked Gov. Beshear this question in person), is... WILL THERE BE UNICORNS ON THE ARK? Or were they just a part of the "Horse 'Kind'"?

wouldn't that be a "goat kind" ?

Finally someone who knows that a unicorn isn’t a horse with a horn.

BUILD an actual ARK! You should probably wait for the outcome of the Noah's Family experiment (below), but it would demonstrate your confidence in the veracity of the Bible if you forged ahead with this (surely there's no doubt that it can be done, is there?). Here are some reasonable rules: * Use only natural wood, but any type you want, unless you're confident you know what "gopher" wood is. * All wood must be obtained and dressed from timber felled by hand, using only such tools as would have been available in Noah's day (no Husqvarna chainsaws--not even iron axes). * All timber and other materials used in the Ark must be transported to the building site using only such means of transport as would have existed at the time (no deliveries by Home Depot). * Only such materials as would have been available to Noah may be used--consult with some archaeologists with serious credentials. * After determining modern equivalents, build the Ark to the specifications given in Genesis. * Use only tools and building methods appropriate to the time period (no CAD, etc.). * The Ark may be built in drydock, or transported to a body of water using modern technology, since all Noah had to do was wait for the water to rise. * Float the Ark, fill it with animals, people, food, etc. (as above) and run the experiment for the full year. Big project? You bet, but won't creationists heed the trumpet call and rush to tithe their money and donate their time to quash the atheists and evolutionists once and for all? Picture the lines of volunteer workers bringing their bronze adzes and copper wedges! Think of all the animals that will be collected worldwide and donated! This will be, without question, the world's only complete zoo.

Live Like Noah's Family This is a simple "prove it can be done" one (and I'll even leave you lots of leeway for "fudges"). According to my creationist reference, Noah's family (8 adults) was cooped up in the Ark for a full year. Construct a building with internal dimensions reasonably like the Ark's. Use whatever modern materials you need to build it and fit it out with pens, cages, coops or whatever for all of the "kinds" Noah had aboard (after you've established exactly what constitutes a "kind," and enumerated them all). Then stock it with the appropriate number of animals and all the provender they'll need for the full year. Make it easy: use easily-obtainable domestic and wild breeds to represent rare or hard-to-obtain species—- the important thing is to have approximately the right number of animals, with the right distribution of body sizes (for instance, you might use 1325 pairs of gerbils [clean or unclean?] to represent all the species of the family Muridae). If the "kind" committee has determined that extinct "kinds" were also aboard, then allow (HUGE!) room for them, and again, represent them with modern animals (it'll take a medium-sized herd of elephants to make up for your pair of brachiosaurs [any chance sauropods were "clean"?]). One more big slide: water may be sent in from the outside (on the ridiculous assumption that the Flood waters were drinkable). Enough outrageous fudges--now for some hard and fast rules. Eight and only eight adults (4 of each gender) must live and remain in the building for the full year. All of the animals and all of their feed and supplies (bedding, etc.--whatever it takes to keep them alive and healthy) must be in the building from the start. All food and supplies for the humans must also be present, but they may have NO foods prepared by canning or other modern methods of preservation. All animal feed must be "natural," i.e. no processed pellets, frozen meats, bags of Gravy Train, etc. (Think bins of grain, hay, meat on the hoof, etc. I'm sure you won't forget the many animals, such as koalas, that can only eat fresh leaves of a very specific variety.) The crew may have no modern chemical preparations (such as SOAP!) or pharmaceuticals--pick healthy volunteers! Neither the people nor any of the animals may leave or re-enter the building until the full year is up. (Deceased animals and people may be "thrown over the side"--but not replaced. Did Noah load only pairs, or did he allow for attrition?) No supplies, materials, tools, etc. at all may be obtained from outside the building or sent in once the experiment starts. Water may be piped from the outside into no more than four reservoirs within the building, but from the reservoirs it must be transported by hand to wherever it's needed (no modern plumbing of any sort--no faucets, no hoses, no toilets, no showers!). The water itself must be drawn directly from a lake or pond outside the building, with NO chemical or other treatment for purification purposes (imagine all the dead things that would have been floating around in the Flood!). For human consumption, purified water may be stored within the building, but may not be replenished during the year. For waste disposal there may be up to twenty sewer holes located along the outer walls of the building, but at least 5 meters above ground level (think of a big storm drain with water constantly flowing through it--to represent portholes or "over the side" on the Ark). ALL wastes, human and animal, must be moved to and disposed of through these sewers. There will be NO electricity within the building--no air conditioning, no fans, no refrigeration, no anything (with the exception of TV cameras, which may be installed for proof of how the people can handle the task, and surveillance to prove they're not cheating). All ventilation will be natural airflow from the outside and within the building, but there can be NO openings lower than 5 meters above ground level (the lower hull was under water!).The "family" may have at its disposal only types of tools, and made of such materials, as would reasonably have been at Noah's disposal (no 12-point crosscut saws or galvanized buckets from Sears). The residents, once the experiment starts, may receive no messages, mail, email, encouragement--no news whatever from the outside world (as a matter of fact, the building should be located or fenced off in such a way that the residents can never see another human being for the duration). At the conclusion of the year, the experiment will be deemed a success only if breeding pairs (sevens of the "clean" ones) can be removed from the building. This must be demonstrated by keeping the pairs isolated from others of their species until they actually produce at least one birth of live young on their own. Awfully persnickety rules? Hardly--this is incredibly lenient. It's not hard to think of many more that should reasonably apply, such as storing within the building all the food the animals would need after the Flood, until new plants could grow. (Do the math on this: how many live sheep would have to have been in the original Ark flock to keep all the carnivores alive and healthy for the whole year, plus several years afterward, until wild prey animals could repopulate to a point where they wouldn't be instantly extinguished by a few acts of predation? Not to mention the meat the people ate.)

Just Bob said:

* Use only natural wood, but any type you want, unless you’re confident you know what “gopher” wood is.

Now I understand, Noah said to his sons:

"go fer wood, boys, wherever you can find it, cut down a forest if you must, if you can find one in this here arid land."

"Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale; a tale of a fateful trip..."

"That started from this tropic board, aboard this rather large ship... er, boat... er, contraption..."

DavidK said: Just Bob said: * Use only natural wood, but any type you want, unless you’re confident you know what “gopher” wood is. Now I understand, Noah said to his sons: "go fer wood, boys, wherever you can find it, cut down a forest if you must, if you can find one in this here arid land."

There seems to be some confusion about Johan Huibers' ark project.

First off, there is only one ark currently 'ready', namely the scale model mentioned by John Vanko. Strangely, none of the websites seems to mention it, but I'm fairly certain that it can't float by itself; it's lying in a sort of flat container used to tow it through the Dutch canals. It's a sort of museum, but closed for the season.

Then there is Ark V2, which is still under construction and supposed to become real-size AND seaworthy enough to float to the London Olympics in 2012. The building project in Dordrecht was intended to be opened for the public in june 2010, but I think it's been postponed to 2011.

Will this 135 meter monster, with or without metal reinforcement, sail, or even keep afloat? Judging by this list of wooden ships, it's chances are slim. Very slim.

“We think that God would probably have sent healthy juvenile-sized animals that weren’t fully grown yet, so there would be plenty of room,” said Mr. Zovath, a retired Army lieutenant colonel heading the ark project. “We want to show how Noah would have taken care of them, taken care of waste management, taken care of water needs and food needs.”

There are enough unknowns in the biblical account that even if Ham built the thing according to his interpretation of the Bible, there'd still be enough wiggle room to explain away any failure. For example, who knows what "gopher wood" was? Will he use natural bitumen (maybe from the La Brey tar-pits)?

You've gotta admit...if you want to gain attention building a full scale replica of Noah's Ark is the way to go! Next up: Noah's Cruise Line!

Karen S. said: From the NY Times article on Ark Encounter: Take baby animals, no need for their mothers. And they'll stay small for the duration of the cruise. Plenty of room for all. Why not take bird eggs and let Noah incubate them? Yes, it promises to be interesting.

stevaroni said:

Karen S. said: From the NY Times article on Ark Encounter: Take baby animals, no need for their mothers. And they'll stay small for the duration of the cruise. Plenty of room for all. Why not take bird eggs and let Noah incubate them? Yes, it promises to be interesting.

Sure! That would be great! You can start with a pair of baby elephants. They would only weigh about 600 pounds, total! Of course, they do nurse for two years. And they take about 15 years to sexually mature, and, being very social animals that get very dysfunctional outside of a social group, would have to be raised by the Noah's for much of that time, because an elephant learns much of what it needs to know to live from it's family. But what the hell, how much trouble could it be, baby-sitting a pair of elephants for a decade and a half? And a pair of baby gorillas for a similar amount of time. And a pair of baby orangutans. very clingy, those. I think Rhino's and hippos are a bit better, though, probably no more than 8 or 10 years needed there. Good luck with the baby sea-birds, though. many of those have to be fed by regurgitating raw fish - and if you don' do it that way, they might not be able to feed their chicks someday (true issue, bird rescue organizations have trouble with this all the time).

I read much here about how the Noah's Ark story is impossible. However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur.

I read much here about how the Noah’s Ark story is impossible. However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur.

Good luck with the baby sea-birds, though. many of those have to be fed by regurgitating raw fish - and if you don’ do it that way, they might not be able to feed their chicks someday (true issue, bird rescue organizations have trouble with this all the time).

However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur.

Karen S. said: I'm sure Noah and family would be puking a lot anyway. I'm looking forward to someone visiting this ark, asking questions, and reporting back here.

darwinism.dogbarf() said: I read much here about how the Noah's Ark story is impossible. However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur.

darwinism.dogbarf() said: I read much here about how the Noah's Ark story is impossible. However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur.

Just Bob said:

darwinism.dogbarf() said: I read much here about how the Noah's Ark story is impossible. However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur.

Hey Canine Puke: Were there dinosaurs on the Ark? If not, why not? If so, what was the point in saving them if they were going to be extinct in a few years anyway? And when do you reckon they went extinct? Or do you agree with Hovind that they're still alive somewhere in darkest Africa?

and hey since "kind" appears to be fungible - maye there were just like 100 animals on the Ark- all th e rest of that space was for the food? (or maybe the food bins were magic artifacts like "Bucknard's Everfull Purse" or a "Bag of Holding") and the Ark was magically reinforced/stabilized so that it would not sink, and the sea was magically calmed so that the Ark wouldn't mopve around too much (and so on and so on ad infinitum)

seriously kids it's just a story....

Did anyone else catch the artist's rendition of the original Ark under construction on AiG's website? http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2010/12/13/insite-1210

Note the bulbous protrusion under the waterline of the bow. This is a modern invention for large ocean-going cargo ships to reduce drag.

It first appeared in the 1920's according to Wikipedia (Bulbous Bow), and offers the most benefit when the ship is traveling near it's top speed.

Now why would Noah have used a drag-reducing 20th Century technology on a boat without propulsion?

And how about those cranes around the big boat? More 20th Century technology! How did Noah figure that out?

It was a miracle, I guess. Or else Noah had technology we haven't invented yet.

To whomever does go: make sure you get a picture of the inevitable “no pets allowed” sign. :)

Almost forgot! Ask how long it took to assemble the animals for this new ark, and if any expertise was required, and why.

darwinism.dogbarf() said: I read much here about how the Noah's Ark story is impossible. However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur.

jasonmitchell said: and hey since "kind" appears to be fungible - maye there were just like 100 animals on the Ark- all th e rest of that space was for the food? (or maybe the food bins were magic artifacts like "Bucknard's Everfull Purse" or a "Bag of Holding")

John Vanko said: Did anyone else catch the artist's rendition of the original Ark under construction on AiG's website? http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2010/12/13/insite-1210 Note the bulbous protrusion under the waterline of the bow. This is a modern invention for large ocean-going cargo ships to reduce drag.

SWT said:

darwinism.dogbarf() said: I read much here about how the Noah's Ark story is impossible. However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur.

Heh ... I didn't think anyone here was objecting to the historicity of the flood narrative on the basis that arks arise through "Darwinian" processes rather than as the results of conscious decisions by ark builders. I think we'd all even be willing to grant that ark builders of the time probably did not apply what we would consider to be evolutionary design algorithms to the problem. So score one for ID: if the flood narrative is historically correct, the ark was intelligently designed and was not the result of unguided natural forces. Yay.

darwinism.dogbarf() said:

SWT said:

darwinism.dogbarf() said: I read much here about how the Noah's Ark story is impossible. However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur.

Heh ... I didn't think anyone here was objecting to the historicity of the flood narrative on the basis that arks arise through "Darwinian" processes rather than as the results of conscious decisions by ark builders. I think we'd all even be willing to grant that ark builders of the time probably did not apply what we would consider to be evolutionary design algorithms to the problem. So score one for ID: if the flood narrative is historically correct, the ark was intelligently designed and was not the result of unguided natural forces. Yay.

However, they assume the environment in which the flood occurred is a product of Darwinian chance. They do not take into account the possibility of intelligent design guiding the ship to safety.

Just Bob said: Hey Canine Puke: Were there dinosaurs on the Ark? If not, why not? If so, what was the point in saving them if they were going to be extinct in a few years anyway?

And when do you reckon they went extinct?

darwinism.dogbarf() said: I read much here about how the Noah's Ark story is impossible. However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur.

darwinism.dogbarf() said: However, they assume the environment in which the flood occurred is a product of Darwinian chance. They do not take into account the possibility of intelligent design guiding the ship to safety.

This illustration clearly shows a massively reinforced broad stem supporting the underwater ram designed to take out the arks of competing deities. RAMMING SPEED!!!

They do not take into account the possibility of intelligent design guiding the ship to safety.

However, they assume the environment in which the flood occurred is a product of Darwinian chance.

if this is an example of the typical thinking process you utilize, you must be a gibbering lunatic in an assylum somewhere.

seriously, are people actually even trying to make sense of what this person said?

then, if so, you're wrong.

there is no sense in it to even start debating.

Is this what happened to the dinosaurs and Permian mammal-like reptiles?

heh.

almost could be attributed to darwinian mechanisms of selection via competition...

the abrahamic god a product of natural selection?

say it ain't so!

:P

stevaroni said: To this day there are still fools walking around the hills in Turkey digging into every pointy hillock in the hopes that they'll find Noah's logbook.

John Vanko said: Did anyone else catch the artist's rendition of the original Ark under construction on AiG's website? http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2010/12/13/insite-1210

Just Bob said:

darwinism.dogbarf() said: I read much here about how the Noah's Ark story is impossible. However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur.

Hey Canine Puke: Were there dinosaurs on the Ark? If not, why not? If so, what was the point in saving them if they were going to be extinct in a few years anyway? And when do you reckon they went extinct? Or do you agree with Hovind that they're still alive somewhere in darkest Africa?

Dave Lovell said: I think you are wrong sir. A bulbous bow also requires a very sharp cutwater on the stem at the waterline to work efficiently. This illustration clearly shows a massively reinforced broad stem supporting the underwater ram designed to take out the arks of competing deities. RAMMING SPEED!!!

I'd just treat it like Disneyland with flying elephants. It has a religious theme, but if you are worried about the Ark, use this as an educational opportunity. It will focus a lot of attention on the authenticity of anything that they build. They can be stupid and claim it is literally the true version of the Ark, but all anyone has to do is go to the original Hebrew (for their version) and see how theirs matches up with reality. You can even inform them of the Gilgamesh version.

The version of the ark that they have at their creation museum in Kentucky has a triple hull design that isn't mentioned in my Bible. They also have windows all around the ark under the roof that don't seem to be mentioned either.

It should be an opportunity to tell the public what the Bible really says when they are in the mood to check it out.

The true source of "gopherwood" and the legend of Noah:
http://www.laputanlogic.com/articles/2004/01/24-0001.html

Let's see Captain a'Ham build a really big boat out of this stuff.

(The fumes from all the PITCH would kill every living thing inside, if the lack of ventilation didn't.)

John Vanko said: But a ram? Who was doing the rowing? The 8 people on the big boat?

perhaps Noah personally had a pet T. Rex.

wow, second excuse to post this I've run into today!

http://www.freakingnews.com/Dinosaurs-in-Art-Pictures--1472-0.asp

I really like the Pet Raptor pic:

http://www.freakingnews.com/Pet-Dinosaur-Pictures-35940.asp

John Vanko said:

Dave Lovell said: I think you are wrong sir. A bulbous bow also requires a very sharp cutwater on the stem at the waterline to work efficiently. This illustration clearly shows a massively reinforced broad stem supporting the underwater ram designed to take out the arks of competing deities. RAMMING SPEED!!!

Noah didn't know everything! Maybe it was an imperfect bulbous bow. But a ram? Who was doing the rowing? The 8 people on the big boat? (Aw Zounds! You're probably right.) Impossible, either way.

darwinism.dogbarf() said:

SWT said:

darwinism.dogbarf() said: I read much here about how the Noah's Ark story is impossible. However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur.

Heh ... I didn't think anyone here was objecting to the historicity of the flood narrative on the basis that arks arise through "Darwinian" processes rather than as the results of conscious decisions by ark builders. I think we'd all even be willing to grant that ark builders of the time probably did not apply what we would consider to be evolutionary design algorithms to the problem. So score one for ID: if the flood narrative is historically correct, the ark was intelligently designed and was not the result of unguided natural forces. Yay.

However, they assume the environment in which the flood occurred is a product of Darwinian chance. They do not take into account the possibility of intelligent design guiding the ship to safety.

"Make up your own story about why Noah had to build a boat if intelligent design were possible. Why flood everything? Was the whole biosphere tainted? Why save any animals? Why not start over?"

I repeatedly ask questions like that to Floodists, here and elsewhere. I've never got an answer. Ever.

Either (like Matthew Harrison Brady) they don't think about things they don't think about--or they really don't want to publicly defend the "morality" of a god that drowns baby girls. Or the incompetence of one who needs a flood and human assistance to make the world right again--which, of course, completely fails.

darwinism.dogbarf() said:

"I read much here about how the Noah’s Ark story is impossible. However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur."

Hmmm....perhaps it could. Will you please state this "intelligent design theory" of which you speak, so that we may see if it provides an explanation?

Thank you very much.

Ron Okimoto said: What other aspect of your life do you depend on an inference with a 100% failure rate?

Make up your own story about why Noah had to build a boat if intelligent design were possible.

raven said:

Make up your own story about why Noah had to build a boat if intelligent design were possible.

About all I got out of reading the Big Boat story was that god is an incompetent idiot. He makes humans, they promptly screw up. kicks them out of the garden. They screw up some more. He genocides all but 8. They screw up again. He confuses their speech at the Tower. They screw up some more. Punished by being overrun by the Assyrians and exiled to Babylon. They screw up some more. He sends himself down to be killed by humans to save them in some unexplainable way. They keep screwing up. Plan X is to show up Real Soon and kill everyone and destroy the earth. About the only fix the deity has is killing lots of people. It never works for long. And the ultimate fault is obvious. The OT god is blaming us for being the defective creatures that he, himself Intelligently Designed. If god is all powerful, why couldn't he get humans right the first time?

Oooooh! Here comes JK.

Dave Lovell said: ... it is clear we are both wrong. The illustration shows the stern not the bow.

Just Bob said:

darwinism.dogbarf() said: I read much here about how the Noah's Ark story is impossible. However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur.

Hey Canine Puke: Were there dinosaurs on the Ark? If not, why not? If so, what was the point in saving them if they were going to be extinct in a few years anyway? And when do you reckon they went extinct? Or do you agree with Hovind that they're still alive somewhere in darkest Africa?

henry said:

Just Bob said:

darwinism.dogbarf() said: I read much here about how the Noah's Ark story is impossible. However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur.

Hey Canine Puke: Were there dinosaurs on the Ark? If not, why not? If so, what was the point in saving them if they were going to be extinct in a few years anyway? And when do you reckon they went extinct? Or do you agree with Hovind that they're still alive somewhere in darkest Africa?

Some dinosaurs may have been around as recent as 500 years ago. http://www.icr.org/article/dinosaur-next-door/

Those were just stray pet dinosaurs who got loose from their ancient astronaut pet carriers.

Marion Delgado said: Those were just stray pet dinosaurs who got loose from their ancient astronaut pet carriers.

henry said: Some dinosaurs may have been around as recent as 500 years ago.

Kris said:

henry said:

Just Bob said:

darwinism.dogbarf() said: I read much here about how the Noah's Ark story is impossible. However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur.

Hey Canine Puke: Were there dinosaurs on the Ark? If not, why not? If so, what was the point in saving them if they were going to be extinct in a few years anyway? And when do you reckon they went extinct? Or do you agree with Hovind that they're still alive somewhere in darkest Africa?

Some dinosaurs may have been around as recent as 500 years ago. http://www.icr.org/article/dinosaur-next-door/

More on the Ica stones: http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Ica_stones http://www.crystalinks.com/icastones.html http://www.labyrinthina.com/cabrera2.htm http://members.cox.net/icastones/home.htm I think that John D. Morris is really, really reaching (and desperate) if he believes that anything he presented is supportive evidence of his claims. And fire breathing dinosaurs?? Nah.

If you check their website http://arkencounter.com/ the illustration shows at least 19 people working on the ark plus stupidly designed cranes and scaffolding, presumably with people operating them. Did Noah just shut the door on all his loyal slave co-workers?

OK, if they ever get this started the plans will have to be submitted for approval. How many tons of steel and concrete will they have to include just to meet building safety standards and to stop the idiotic mess just falling down? Perhaps someone could hold a sweepstake.

Thrutch Grenadine said: If you check their website http://arkencounter.com/ the illustration shows at least 19 people working on the ark plus stupidly designed cranes and scaffolding, presumably with people operating them. Did Noah just shut the door on all his loyal slave co-workers?

Wouldn't a more appropriate name for this theme park be "Jellystone" rather than "Ark Encounter" theme park.

henry said:

Kris said:

henry said:

Just Bob said:

darwinism.dogbarf() said: I read much here about how the Noah's Ark story is impossible. However, evolutionists only consider Darwinian methods and since it would be impossible be these methods it would be impossible. However, intelligent design theory could provide an explanation of how this could occur.

Hey Canine Puke: Were there dinosaurs on the Ark? If not, why not? If so, what was the point in saving them if they were going to be extinct in a few years anyway? And when do you reckon they went extinct? Or do you agree with Hovind that they're still alive somewhere in darkest Africa?

Some dinosaurs may have been around as recent as 500 years ago. http://www.icr.org/article/dinosaur-next-door/

More on the Ica stones: http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Ica_stones http://www.crystalinks.com/icastones.html http://www.labyrinthina.com/cabrera2.htm http://members.cox.net/icastones/home.htm I think that John D. Morris is really, really reaching (and desperate) if he believes that anything he presented is supportive evidence of his claims. And fire breathing dinosaurs?? Nah.

http://creationwiki.org/Ica_stones

"Why is that the locals constantly sell the Ica stones to tourists when Peruvian laws make it quite clear that buying and selling ancient artifacts is a crime punishable by fines and lengthy jail time for both buyer and seller?"

Are you implying they're FORGERIES? I'm shocked--shocked I say! Next you'll be telling me that the Rolex I bought for $2 in Tienanmen square is fake!

Dave Lovell said: "... it is clear we are both wrong. The illustration shows the stern not the bow."

I tend to appreciate that Oz is such a good source of nutty fundies. The USA doesn't have a copyright on them. Takes some of the pressure off.

John Vanko said: ... check-out the detailed cross-section.

John Vanko said:

Dave Lovell said: "... it is clear we are both wrong. The illustration shows the stern not the bow."

Dave and I may not be able to tell the bow from the stern on an imaginary boat, but all Ark fans have to see this: http://creation.com/rod-walsh-2011-tour-to-eastern-usa An Australian creationist is going to tour the US with a model of the Ark, true no doubt to the original autograph. Please check-out the detailed cross-section. I'm no marine structural engineer, but even I can tell that boat isn't seaworthy. What do you say Mike? Dave?

What puzzles me about the Ark story is that I have this feeling it's based very loosely on something that actually happened, but given its absurdity it's impossible to figure out what. It's just such a weird story that I don't understand what the point of simply making it up out of whole cloth would be.

mrg said: What puzzles me about the Ark story is that I have this feeling it's based very loosely on something that actually happened, but given its absurdity it's impossible to figure out what. It's just such a weird story that I don't understand what the point of simply making it up out of whole cloth would be.

Mike Elzinga said: No doubt some of mythology traces back into events that took place somewhere in the mists of prehistory.

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