Something's definitely run amuck

PS: You can get the fridge magnet here: http://stjent.pinnaclecart.com/index.php?p=product&id=5562&parent=17&is_print_version=true

As I understand it, everything at DI is fake. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Why would Dembski be so taken with a photograph created to improve upon God's handiwork?

As usual, their design detection remains woefully inadequate.

Not surprising when they deliberately redefine design to include what has all of the hallmarks of non-teleological evolution.

Glen Davidson

Dimski, it's "amok" you dumbass

See, since the photo was doctored it actually was 'designed' which must make Dembski God err.. the designer.

Of course the photo has many hallmarks of design and we understand that this result can be accomplished by humans using photoshop or the equivalent.

Looks like amuck is a legit variant:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/amuck

As an ex-gardener I can tell that the majority of the recognisable plants in this picture are man-made hybrids. I can identify Russell Lupins, Iris hybrids, Pansies and French Marigolds. These will definitely not grow wild in the mountains. The plants as shown look more like an English cottage garden.
Dumbski is lying through his teeth to claim these as natural.

Glen Davidson said: As usual, their design detection remains woefully inadequate. Not surprising when they deliberately redefine design to include what has all of the hallmarks of non-teleological evolution.

Nick Matzke said: Looks like amuck is a legit variant: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/amuck

My first thought was "fake" on this photo too.
Some of these plants aren't even wild flowers, and several certainly not native to the Grand Tetons.
However, I was willing to submit to Dumbski the benefit of the doubt and think it was an amazing cultivated garden with a fantastic view. But really the plants don't look like natural (garden natural) clumps anyway.

It is amazing what the Discoveroids will do.

The family travels a lot.

Are matzke et all playing dense for any particular purpose?

Whether the pic has been doctored or not is beside the point.

These obviously bored folks are in desperate need of a point so photoshop comes to the rescue?

No blog post is better than a sloppy one.

SteveP. said: Are matzke et all playing dense for any particular purpose? Whether the pic has been doctored or not is beside the point.

The End-Time is Here 2008 was God's last warning. 2012 is economic collapse & WW III www.the-end.com

ksplawn said:

SteveP. said: Are matzke et all playing dense for any particular purpose? Whether the pic has been doctored or not is beside the point.

The "point" of the ENnV post was is pretty much just Dembski imagining that other people think things differently from him, so that's kind of petty and insignificant. But Dembski's the one who brought it up again after all these years anyway, and Matzke was just reminded of what most people in the “atheistic evolutionists" really thought of the picture, which didn't happen to line up with Dembski's imaginings. So who really had the sloppy blog post?

dalehusband said: I'm looking at the original blog entry by Dumbski and this ad appears on it:

The End-Time is Here 2008 was God's last warning. 2012 is economic collapse & WW III www.the-end.com

Which made me almost die laughing.

Karen S. said: Why would Dembski be so taken with a photograph created to improve upon God's handiwork?

The End-Time is Here 2008 was God’s last warning. 2012 is economic collapse & WW III www.the-end.com

Thanks to Dembski for once again reminding us that the "scientific" method that ID employs is to look at something, consult your gut, and to then proclaim "it's designed!" without once considering what you can learn about it.

Dembski: hinting at the wonders of God’s creation,...

The End-Time is Here 2008 was God’s last warning. 2012 is economic collapse & WW III www.the-end.com.

SteveP. said: Are matzke et all playing dense for any particular purpose? Whether the pic has been doctored or not is beside the point.

Moreover, for Falk to echo the psalmist is hardly an argument for the world proclaiming God's handiwork and glory, because many atheistic evolutionists will deny Falk's confident affirmations of divine perspicuity. I've seen this directly. I recall posting on my blog a gorgeous picture of wildflowers, hinting at the wonders of God's creation, and seeing comments by atheistic evolutionists who dismissed it as merely "sex" run amuck. Thus, when Falk echoes Psalm 19, what more is he doing than giving expression to his own faith? Indeed, what more is he saying to atheists than merely "I see God's hand in all of this and you don't -- you're blind and I see."

raven said: ...just look at, for example, Michele Bachmann.

The photo of the flowers appears to be called Iris Garden, Salem, Oregon, USA. The photographer is Adam Jones.

TinEye can be really useful for stuff like this.

Having lived in Wyoming for a long time, two things tipped me off right away:
1) The garden is clearly in full summer bloom, yet the snow on the mountains comes down almost all the way to ~7000 feet elevation, which indicates early spring.
2) I recall there is a variety of lupin that grows in Wyoming, but it is small and blue. These are definitely flower garden varieties.

AJ said: The photo of the flowers appears to be called Iris Garden, Salem, Oregon, USA. The photographer is Adam Jones. TinEye can be really useful for stuff like this.

The top photo would do quite well in N.I.P.A. !

Having lived in Wyoming for a long time, two things tipped me off right away: 1) The garden is clearly in full summer bloom, yet the snow on the mountains comes down almost all the way to ~7000 feet elevation, which indicates early spring. 2) I recall there is a variety of lupin that grows in Wyoming, but it is small and blue. These are definitely flower garden varieties.

This is a spectacular example of the science-stopping power of ID. To Dembski, its such an obvious example of God’s design that he does not bother questioning whether it might have been photoshopped.

In other words, they too envisage evolution by ‘sex’ running amuck.

What flowers? I think Skillet Glacier is intelligently designed to provide a feasible ascent route to the summit of Mt. Moran.

http://www.skiingthebackcountry.com/ski_guide/UNITED-STATES/WYOMING/TETONS-NORTH/MOUNT-MORAN/SKILLET-GLACIER

Karen S. said: Why would Dembski be so taken with a photograph created to improve upon God's handiwork?

Nick, I didn't realize Bill Dembski was a Katy Perry fan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F57P9C4SAW4

(Which would make perfect sense since her parents are fellow Xians.)

I could have sworn that photograph was "borrowed" from Perry's "California Gurls" video.

Karen S. said:

This is a spectacular example of the science-stopping power of ID. To Dembski, its such an obvious example of God’s design that he does not bother questioning whether it might have been photoshopped.

Shouldn't we be worshiping PhotoShop now?

Henry J said:

In other words, they too envisage evolution by ‘sex’ running amuck.

The plants in that picture were undergoing Pon Farr? Yep, that's Amok Time, all right! (I'll be going now ... )

Dembski will still Klingon to his illusions though...

You know, that image gives us the best evidence for design (sad but true).

However, it appears that it is much more likely that the designer is a 15 year kid who has a supercomputer the size of a planet to run his science experiments on... and we are merely experiments.

I can imagine the kid producing many papers on the evolution of the religious fundamentalist. Of course, the simulation we are all in was designed, so the kid obviously knew the results of the experiment. But where he's from planetary super-computers are so easy to use, he decided to run the experiment anyway.

However, it appears that it is much more likely that the designer is a 15 year kid who has a supercomputer the size of a planet to run his science experiments on…

Henry J said:

However, it appears that it is much more likely that the designer is a 15 year kid who has a supercomputer the size of a planet to run his science experiments on…

Or an Organian?

Henry J said: Or an Organian?

I have it on good authority that the entire Organian thing was one big cosmic bluff…

I think you are thinking of Balok

Henry J said: No, it was Organians I was thinking of. The Balok thing didn't even come to mind until after you mentioned it.

"Have a look at the following image and consider what your gut is telling you"

what my gut tells me...

damn! those flowers are really gettin' off!

*70s porn music plays in background*

oh, btw, Nick?

what is your commentary regarding Dembski's article on Biologos saying that xianity and evolution are incompatible at a basic level?

isn't biologos supposed to be, you know, pushing the idea that they are?

hmm.

what is your commentary regarding Dembski’s article on Biologos saying that xianity and evolution are incompatible at a basic level?

Henry J said:

I have it on good authority that the entire Organian thing was one big cosmic bluff…

Uh - who was bluffing, and against who?

I think you are thinking of Balok

No, it was Organians I was thinking of. The Balok thing didn't even come to mind until after you mentioned it.

Karen S. said:

what is your commentary regarding Dembski’s article on Biologos saying that xianity and evolution are incompatible at a basic level?

It's true--Dembski has 2 guest posts on BioLogos. (It's strange, isn't it? ID isn't about religion.) Anyway, you can find Dembski's post and leave a polite comment. It won't be censored (perhaps).

Since I no longer have posting privileges there, Karen S., be sure to say hello to Bill from me. Tell him that I’ll gladly act as a consultant - for the right price of course - whenever he and Behe decide to write the definitive textbook on Klingon Cosmology, to be published by Behe’s American publisher (which would make perfect sense since Behe’s publisher also publishes virtually everything devoted to “Star Trek”).

thomasjneal.nz said: what is your commentary regarding Dembski's article on Biologos saying that xianity and evolution are incompatible at a basic level?

SWT said:

thomasjneal.nz said: what is your commentary regarding Dembski's article on Biologos saying that xianity and evolution are incompatible at a basic level?

I think this might be definitive proof that Christianity and evolutionary biology are compatible at a basic level.

Karen S. said:

Since I no longer have posting privileges there, Karen S., be sure to say hello to Bill from me. Tell him that I’ll gladly act as a consultant - for the right price of course - whenever he and Behe decide to write the definitive textbook on Klingon Cosmology, to be published by Behe’s American publisher (which would make perfect sense since Behe’s publisher also publishes virtually everything devoted to “Star Trek”).

I don't think I want to post there anymore either. Their new guy Ted Davis was very rude to me. I'm just not fundie enough, I guess.

harold said:

SWT said:

thomasjneal.nz said: what is your commentary regarding Dembski's article on Biologos saying that xianity and evolution are incompatible at a basic level?

I think this might be definitive proof that Christianity and evolutionary biology are compatible at a basic level.

The dishonesty and narcissism of the "Christianity and evolution are not compatible, therefore evolution is wrong" approach is most disturbing. If you believe your own senses and are capable of logical thought, by extension, you can understand that life evolves. Life evolved for billions of years before humans were born and it will evolve whether members of a doomed post-modern cult of backlash against equal rights for women and minorities, disguised/justified as a religion, like it or not. If a particular version of Christianity is not compatible with biological evolution, then that version of Christianity is wrong, period, to the extent that anything can be wrong. Denying biological evolution is denying reality, as much as dropping a ball at sea level and expecting it to fall upward into outer space.

Dr. Lisle grew up in a Christian home,

and was taught to respect the absolute authority and accuracy of the Bible,

and to be discerning about what is taught in secular schools.

These critical thinking skills

helped Jason to spot the fallacious arguments that are often used in the universities to supposedly prove evolution.

An important consideration is the fact that the origins debate is a matter of competing worldviews. Worldviews control how we interpret the evidence; thus, creationists and evolutionists can draw different conclusions about the same evidence.

Note about my use of the term "decadent" -

I realize that term has been unfairly applied to modern art and groups of people by political authoritarians.

That is, obviously, not my intent here.

I do use it sometimes, because it is a word which has a strong impact, and which refers to "decay". The implicit or explicit claim that scientific reality itself must be wrong if it does not conform to ones' own self-serving demands seems, at least to me, to be on the rise in the United States. There was always some of it, but now there seems to be more. That is a "decay" from a prior better state.

If anyone objects to my use of the word "decadent" in this way, feel free to make a persuasive argument against it, and I will consider not using it.

For now, it seems like the right word to use.

oh, btw, Nick? what is your commentary regarding Dembski's article on Biologos saying that xianity and evolution are incompatible at a basic level? isn't biologos supposed to be, you know, pushing the idea that they are? hmm.

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Nick Matzke said: It looks sort of like Adam Jones himself is the source of the fake, as he did the Salem flower garden, and is also listed as the photographer of the flowers/Tetons..."

Nick Matzke said:

oh, btw, Nick? what is your commentary regarding Dembski's article on Biologos saying that xianity and evolution are incompatible at a basic level? isn't biologos supposed to be, you know, pushing the idea that they are? hmm.

I'm pretty sure that what is going on is that BioLogos hopes to convince evangelicals to accept evolution by politely engaging with the evangelicals who don't, as pro-evolution evangelicals. It might work or might not work, but it's worth a shot IMHO. Conservative evangelicals are the by-far dominant source of antievolutionism. The only realistic way the evolution issue will ever go away is if those evangelicals get over it -- as conservative religious types eventually got over heliocentrism, atomism, lightning-as-electricity and Ben Franklin's lightning rods, etc. These all had vehement religious objectors, but they got over it, largely through discussions within their own religious traditions. Nowadays it is hard for anyone to imagine a large number of present-day religious people getting mad over those issues. Certainly, plenty of people have tried getting mad and shouting at conservative evangelicals, but that doesn't seem to have influenced them very much. So, basically, if anyone is going to spend time trying to change the minds of conservative evangelicals, it might as well be BioLogos; almost anyone else has much poorer odds and is probably not making good use of their time. The Gnu atheists' vehement hostility to the BioLogos guys is pretty bizarre I think. It's basically friendly fire. On the other hand, the more the Gnus bash BioLogos, the more cred BioLogos will have with conservative evangelicals, so it may all work out in the end.

Off Topic Trivia, but "amuck" (or "amok") is the only word from the Malay language used in everydaqy English.

Paul Burnett said: Off Topic Trivia, but "amuck" (or "amok") is the only word from the Malay language used in everydaqy English.

Nick,

I admit that this is a bit off topic, but thought I would urge you and others here at Panda's Thumb to protest what I view as irresponsible journalism by "science" journalist Suzan Mazur in her recent interview with University of Chicago microbiologist James Shapiro at the online journal Counterpunch (e-mail address: counterpunch@counterpunch.org):

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/05/07/the-evolution-paradigm-shift/

For example, Mazur had this to say about NCSE, its "status" as an "appendage" of AAAS, and its relationship to both Jerry Coyne and the 2008 Rockefeller University symposium:

"In pinpointing some of the most obnoxious behavior in defense of Darwinian scenarios, I am reminded of the keynote speaker of the Rockefeller University Evolution symposium — University of Chicago biologist Jerry Coyne — who stood before an audience of distinguished scientists in the spring of 2008 to do damage control, first trashing Creationism and then declaring that he could cite 300 examples of natural selection but didn’t have enough time to do so. The speech was arranged by the National Center for Science Education — an appendage of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. I understand the AAAS has since asked for assistance steering it to scientists who are thinking about self-organization."

Here's an excerpt of what I wrote to Counterpunch as a complaint:

"I would appreciate some sort of retraction or correction with regards to Mazur's 'observation' on your website, especially since her remarks do not indicate that this was a symposium meant to summarize the evidence for biological evolution from a primarily biochemical and molecular biological perspective, as well as an event held to commemorate a year early, both the bicentennial of Darwin's birthday and the 150th anniversary of the original publication of Darwin's 'On the Origin of Species'."

"When noted Conservative commentators like John Derbyshire, Charles Krauthammer and George Will have condemned repeatedly efforts by creationists to teach 'scientific creationism' in American public schools, and other conservatives and Republicans, like Timothy Sandefur of the Pacific Legal Foundation, noted skeptic Michael Shermer, Federal Judge John R. Jones (who presided over the 2005 Kitzmiller vs. Dover (PA) Area School District trial) and past and current Presidential candidates Newt Gingrich, Jon Huntsman, and Mitt Romney recognize the scientific validity of biological evolution and have, in several instances, also condemned the teaching of creationism, then it is irresponsible for Mazur as a 'science' journalist to have mocked Coyne's 'trashing creationism'. It is also quite irresponsible for Mazur to accuse the organization I belong to, the National Center for Science Education (NCSE), of 'arranging' Coyne's 'speech'. She is also irresponsible in claiming that NCSE is an 'appendage' of the American Association for the Advancement of Science when, in reality, both are separate, independent, organizations; the former devoted to educating the public on what is sound, acceptable, mainstream science in biology and geology; the latter, one of our nation's premier scientific societies."

TomS said:

Paul Burnett said: Off Topic Trivia, but "amuck" (or "amok") is the only word from the Malay language used in everydaqy English.

"Orangutan", which is literally in Malay "forest man". Also "ketchup".

Nick Matzke said: So, basically, if anyone is going to spend time trying to change the minds of conservative evangelicals, it might as well be BioLogos; almost anyone else has much poorer odds and is probably not making good use of their time. The Gnu atheists' vehement hostility to the BioLogos guys is pretty bizarre I think. It's basically friendly fire. On the other hand, the more the Gnus bash BioLogos, the more cred BioLogos will have with conservative evangelicals, so it may all work out in the end.

apokryltaros said:

TomS said:

Paul Burnett said: Off Topic Trivia, but "amuck" (or "amok") is the only word from the Malay language used in everydaqy English.

"Orangutan", which is literally in Malay "forest man". Also "ketchup".

The word "ketchup" is derived from the Malay "kĕchap," which was, in turn, borrowed from Amoy Chinese, "kê-chiap" (鮭汁), meaning "carp juice." Originally, kê-chiap was a pickle made from fish brined in herbs, but then the sauce evolved along with its name as it made its way into Western Culture.

who stood before an audience of distinguished scientists in the spring of 2008 to do damage control

??

damage control?

LOL

Nick Matzke said:

apokryltaros said:

TomS said:

Paul Burnett said: Off Topic Trivia, but "amuck" (or "amok") is the only word from the Malay language used in everydaqy English.

"Orangutan", which is literally in Malay "forest man". Also "ketchup".

The word "ketchup" is derived from the Malay "kĕchap," which was, in turn, borrowed from Amoy Chinese, "kê-chiap" (鮭汁), meaning "carp juice." Originally, kê-chiap was a pickle made from fish brined in herbs, but then the sauce evolved along with its name as it made its way into Western Culture.

Truly, I say, this is a thread worthy of the University of Ediacara.

thomasjneal.nz said: who stood before an audience of distinguished scientists in the spring of 2008 to do damage control ?? damage control? LOL

John said: Nick, I admit that this is a bit off topic, but thought I would urge you and others here at Panda's Thumb to protest what I view as irresponsible journalism by "science" journalist Suzan Mazur in her recent interview with University of Chicago microbiologist James Shapiro at the online journal Counterpunch (e-mail address: counterpunch@counterpunch.org): http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/05/07/the-evolution-paradigm-shift/ For example, Mazur had this to say about NCSE, its "status" as an "appendage" of AAAS, and its relationship to both Jerry Coyne and the 2008 Rockefeller University symposium: "In pinpointing some of the most obnoxious behavior in defense of Darwinian scenarios, I am reminded of the keynote speaker of the Rockefeller University Evolution symposium — University of Chicago biologist Jerry Coyne — who stood before an audience of distinguished scientists in the spring of 2008 to do damage control, first trashing Creationism and then declaring that he could cite 300 examples of natural selection but didn’t have enough time to do so. The speech was arranged by the National Center for Science Education — an appendage of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. I understand the AAAS has since asked for assistance steering it to scientists who are thinking about self-organization." Here's an excerpt of what I wrote to Counterpunch as a complaint: "I would appreciate some sort of retraction or correction with regards to Mazur's 'observation' on your website, especially since her remarks do not indicate that this was a symposium meant to summarize the evidence for biological evolution from a primarily biochemical and molecular biological perspective, as well as an event held to commemorate a year early, both the bicentennial of Darwin's birthday and the 150th anniversary of the original publication of Darwin's 'On the Origin of Species'." "When noted Conservative commentators like John Derbyshire, Charles Krauthammer and George Will have condemned repeatedly efforts by creationists to teach 'scientific creationism' in American public schools, and other conservatives and Republicans, like Timothy Sandefur of the Pacific Legal Foundation, noted skeptic Michael Shermer, Federal Judge John R. Jones (who presided over the 2005 Kitzmiller vs. Dover (PA) Area School District trial) and past and current Presidential candidates Newt Gingrich, Jon Huntsman, and Mitt Romney recognize the scientific validity of biological evolution and have, in several instances, also condemned the teaching of creationism, then it is irresponsible for Mazur as a 'science' journalist to have mocked Coyne's 'trashing creationism'. It is also quite irresponsible for Mazur to accuse the organization I belong to, the National Center for Science Education (NCSE), of 'arranging' Coyne's 'speech'. She is also irresponsible in claiming that NCSE is an 'appendage' of the American Association for the Advancement of Science when, in reality, both are separate, independent, organizations; the former devoted to educating the public on what is sound, acceptable, mainstream science in biology and geology; the latter, one of our nation's premier scientific societies."

Dembski is even more of an idiot than I thought. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of gardening knows those are NOT wildflowers. The "design" is "extravagant" because these are the product of 200 years of artificial selection. Fail.