Freshwater: Reconsideration denied

Well hopefully this spells the end of this glorious saga.

Thanks Richard for your coverage of this debacle. Now hopefully you can take a break.

Yes, thanks Richard.

Dare I say it...book time!

;)

Here (pdf) is the very brief reconsideration denial document, and here (pdf) is the dissent of 3 of the judges, arguing that the decision allows for teachers to be fired for trivial reasons. The comment auto-formatting won't let me post the case page for some reason, but it's easy to find on the Ohio SC website.

the only other basis for terminating Freshwater is the fact that he withdrew two books from the school library and kept then in his classroom—not for teaching purposes or for use in connection with the science curriculum, but rather for his own personal inspiration. This is not insubordinate conduct, nor does it establish good and just cause as required by R.C. 3319.16.

What's going to happen to Freshwater's present career of suing? What's he supposed to do, get a job, follow the law, practice religion on his own time?

Does some creationist whining actually end?

Glen Davidson

See this was always the problem. They should have busted the guy for illegally teaching creationism. They had him dead to rights. He admitted doing it. There were witnesses. Instead there was the slimy insubordination thing. Hopefully the Supreme Court won't see this as an excuse to reexamine the case yet again. No matter what, he's still guilty and should never be allowed in front of a class again.

When I saw "Freshwater" in bold type at the top I was thinking that this is getting quite stale. Do I dare hope that this is the end of it? Richard, you sure have a lot of patience.

I've just re-read Kevin Padian's testemony at Dover; quintessential. If only all cases against stupidity could be so roundly rebuffed.

Great work Richard, I've followed this from the beginning.

Is it possibly finally over?

I am glad, but I'll miss Dick's excellent reportage. RBF, you need a new project!

RBH.

So sorry.

Well, hopefully this saga has finally come to an end.

Golly.

Thanks again for everything Dick! I suspect that this is not the end of the story however. The ending that I would like to see involves Freshwater moving to Kentucky and becoming a parking lot attendant at the Creation Museum. THEN you can write the book!

cmb said: Thanks again for everything Dick! I suspect that this is not the end of the story however. The ending that I would like to see involves Freshwater moving to Kentucky and becoming a parking lot attendant at the Creation Museum. THEN you can write the book!

cmb said: Thanks again for everything Dick! I suspect that this is not the end of the story however. The ending that I would like to see involves Freshwater moving to Kentucky and becoming a parking lot attendant at the Creation Museum. THEN you can write the book!

Kevin B said:

cmb said: Thanks again for everything Dick! I suspect that this is not the end of the story however. The ending that I would like to see involves Freshwater moving to Kentucky and becoming a parking lot attendant at the Creation Museum. THEN you can write the book!

Of course, the ultimate in wishful thinking would be "the parking lot that used to be the Creation Museum".

Richard Hoppe, I thought you may be interested in this. Freshwater friend and spokesperson "Coach" Dave Daubenmire is being considered for a coaching position at Lakewood HS near Hebron, Ohio. This is a public school! Somebody is sniffing around for controversy because this bit of non-news made the local FOX news broadcast yesterday.
http://www.myfox28columbus.com/shared/news/features/top-stories/stories/wtte_controversial-religious-coach-could-hired-at-lakewood-28803.shtml

Grey Wolf said: Richard Hoppe, I thought you may be interested in this. Freshwater friend and spokesperson "Coach" Dave Daubenmire is being considered for a coaching position at Lakewood HS near Hebron, Ohio. This is a public school! Somebody is sniffing around for controversy because this bit of non-news made the local FOX news broadcast yesterday. http://www.myfox28columbus.com/shared/news/features/top-stories/stories/wtte_controversial-religious-coach-could-hired-at-lakewood-28803.shtml

"Anybody that can help us improve the football season is definitely a plus," said Michael Davidson, whose daughter is a cheerleader. "And I want to see prayer in our schools return."

Harold, Daubie was recently fired by a Christian school. It's not clear why, but there are some indications of in-fighting that led to his firing.

IOW, it looks like Harold's last paragraph captures what happened to Daubie.

I don't know why the FOX news item and an article (http://www.newarkadvocate.com/article/20140123/NEWS01/301230021/Pass-Salt-minister-running-Lakewood-football-job) in the Newark Advocate newspaper are mincing words about Daubenmire being fired from the Christian school. He was definitely fired and said so himself in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI2zqe3WiFE.

I would be shocked if Lakewood hired him. It is often so difficult and expensive for public schools to fire a teacher. Why take the chance on a guy with a history of troublemaking for Jesus? Also, Daubenmire is on record for repeatedly telling parents to get their kids out of the "government" schools. http://www.newswithviews.com/Daubenmire/dave304.htm
For Lakewood to hire someone with that attitude is crazy. I think Lakewood gave him an interview so he wouldn't sue for discrimination or something - he has a history of filing lawsuits - and will hire another coach.

And please, for your own amusement, see Daub's video defending Phil Robertson of Duck Dynasty. He makes such an ass out of himself, I'd feel sorry for him if I wasn't so busy laughing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_hLGNWEuw8

Grey Wolf said: I don't know why the FOX news item and an article (http://www.newarkadvocate.com/article/20140123/NEWS01/301230021/Pass-Salt-minister-running-Lakewood-football-job) in the Newark Advocate newspaper are mincing words about Daubenmire being fired from the Christian school. He was definitely fired and said so himself in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI2zqe3WiFE.

https://me.yahoo.com/a/OlqLV6l3tNPb5GE.JARZ.LslD2eROQ--#51bee said:

Grey Wolf said: I don't know why the FOX news item and an article (http://www.newarkadvocate.com/article/20140123/NEWS01/301230021/Pass-Salt-minister-running-Lakewood-football-job) in the Newark Advocate newspaper are mincing words about Daubenmire being fired from the Christian school. He was definitely fired and said so himself in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI2zqe3WiFE.

"Fax Gnus" has a history of deliberately misrepresenting, distorting and outright lies on subjects like these. So does Freshwater, but Fax Gnus is not "news" to be trusted, they're outright biased on damn-near everything, in every broadcast, there's a lie somewhere. Now, why was he outright fired? Was he "narcissistic"? Even Christian schools have standards then.

Here’s the main reason why these nuts always want to act out at a public school. It may be simpler than you think. Religious schools already have their dogma and their hierarchy. Daubenmire and his ilk want to be Head Prophet of the Universe. If Coach shows up at some religious school, even some science-denying fundamentalist Bible camp school, it won’t be long before he runs afoul of their religious rules, and he knows it. But at a public school, he can be the only religion-pushing guy in town, as long as he can get away with it. That’s actually the real reason that narcissistic authoritarian wannabes gravitate to public schools. No competition from other religious “leaders”.

You guys do recognize that Religious Reich types tend to think Gov't-run schools are literally Godforsaken hellholes which have no right to exist, don't you? I suspect that the 'spectre' of losing a First Amendment court case, and thereby saddling a Gov't-run school with a megabuck-scale payout, the money of which would otherwise have been spent on (what they regard as) mis-educating innocent children, I can't help but think that at least some Religious Reich types don't mind in the least that they lose court cases allatime.

https://me.yahoo.com/a/OlqLV6l3tNPb5GE.JARZ.LslD2eROQ--#51bee said: "Fax Gnus" has a history of deliberately misrepresenting, distorting and outright lies...

Follow-up to my earlier comment…

As far as Creationists and other would-be Dominionists are concerned, forcing large amounts of money out of the coffers of public schools is a feature, not a bug. So for the plaintiffs of future lawsuits of this type, it might be worthwhile to consider the possibility of donating the court-ordered monies to the school which lost. Of course, you wouldn't want to do this in a case where the relevant administrators are complicit up to their earlobes in cramming their Jesus down the throats of students. But if it's a case of one teacher going off the First Amendment rails, and actively resisting any efforts the school administrators made to get them back within the limits of Constitutionally allowable actions? In that sort of case, it might make sense for the plaintiff to be content with the legal verdict, and not insist on the school taking a major financial hit on top of it.

I always find it interesting that there is, in some circles, a quasi-religious reverence for the Declaration of Independence, and yet the bit way up at the top about how, for securing rights, "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed" somehow is never quite read, marked, learned and inwardly digested. There is also that bit about "...it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government..."

In fact these bold assertions seem to be somewhat inconsistent with Romans 13, which states that ALL governments are established by God and must be obeyed without question.

And is even further inconsistent with the oft-made assertion/assumption that Government is some sort of alien organism that has parasitically fastened itself, like a suckerfish, onto the Body Politick.

We, the People, establish a Public School system, but it is clearly tyrannical and Satanic (perhaps the Lizard People established it).

Hmm. Six impossible things before breakfast.

There is now a petition AGAINST the hiring of "Coach" Dave. Almost 3500 signatures. Those who think Daubenmire would be a poor choice for football coach at a public H.S. are encouraged to attend the Feb. 12 school board meeting.

https://www.change.org/petitions/lakewood-local-school-district-hebron-oh-do-not-hire-dave-daubenmire

Once again, Daubenmire has riled up a community, and has attracted media attention to himself. He thrives on being in the center of a controversy. To Dave, negative attention is far better than no attention at all.

harold said: Oh, by the way...why doesn't Daubenmire try to coach at a religious school? Here's the main reason why these nuts always want to act out at a public school. It may be simpler than you think. Religious schools already have their dogma and their hierarchy. Daubenmire and his ilk want to be Head Prophet of the Universe. If Coach shows up at some religious school, even some science-denying fundamentalist Bible camp school, it won't be long before he runs afoul of their religious rules, and he knows it. But at a public school, he can be the only religion-pushing guy in town, as long as he can get away with it. That's actually the real reason that narcissistic authoritarian wannabes gravitate to public schools. No competition from other religious "leaders".