Grant County News said today, with some exaggeration, "Ark construction begins." In fact, Ark Encounter had a "Hammer and Peg" ceremony last week; actual groundbreaking will begin later this month.
I watched the ceremony for 40 excruciating minutes in real time. You can see it here on YouTube. I thought it would have been a very nice ceremony, but for the fact that they were talking nonsense. Indeed, the video begins with a picture of Noah or one of his sidekicks driving wooden pegs into the Ark. Want to bet that the Ark Park will use plenty of steel in their Bronze Age structure?
92 Comments
Just Bob · 7 May 2014
The 'Ark Park' is to an actual ark as Space Mountain is to actual spaceflight.
Carl Drews · 7 May 2014
How did they cut that flat surface into which the pegs are being driven?
Matt Young · 7 May 2014
How did they cut that flat surface into which the pegs are being driven?
The board and pegs in the picture are entirely ceremonial. They were fabricated from some trees on the property; I forget exactly what he said. I think, though, that if you go to the YouTube link, within the first minute or two, you will see some animations of Noah (or someone) using similar tools and pegs, and admiring his Ark through a window.
I wondered, in addition, how they would get such an enormous structure from the construction site into the water. I saw no sign, for example, of a drydock.
SWT · 7 May 2014
Matt Young said:
I wondered, in addition, how they would get such an enormous structure from the construction site into the water. I saw no sign, for example, of a drydock.
If you've got an ark, isn't the water supposed come to you?
stevaroni · 7 May 2014
Carl Drews said:
How did they cut that flat surface into which the pegs are being driven?
My first thought was along similar lines.
I was wondering how long it would take someone to cut down that plank, dress the face of it, bore 7 nice holes, turn 7 smooth pegs and make up 7 mallets, using only early iron-age-tools. Which you'd also have to make yourself or perform a reasonable amount of barter labor to acquire.
There's probably two solid man-weeks in that picture alone.
The absolute, willful blindness of Ark-y-types always boggles my mind.
DS · 7 May 2014
Carl Drews said:
How did they cut that flat surface into which the pegs are being driven?
It seems to be round pegs in square holes. Not a good start.
Just Bob · 7 May 2014
Maybe I'm wrong, but... the log was cut flat and smooth in a lumber mill with a huge, steel circular or band saw. The pegs and mallet handles are standard 1" or 1 1/4" dowels from Home Depot. And the mallet heads are lopped-off sections of landscape timbers from the same source.
Yep, there's plenty of symbolism there.
Just Bob · 7 May 2014
And I just love the perfectly clean, unscarred, soft, lily-white hands, the business suits, and what looks like the armrest of a wheelchair in the lower left.
That's going to be one authentic ark.
DavidK · 7 May 2014
Are they going to show the new "Noah" movie at the park?
stevaroni · 7 May 2014
Just Bob said:
And I just love the perfectly clean, unscarred, soft, lily-white hands,
Lily white hands.
That's another thing the fundies always forget.
Noah was a middle-easterner, and, like Jesus after him, would have looked more like Yassar Arrafat than Ken Ham.
They'd have certainly been brown an Arabic enough to make them stand out suspiciously in a line of AiG fellows.
And, since we are all the spawn of those 8 members of team Noah that got off the boat, that means all those southern white creationists are actually descended from - gasp! - minorities!
https://me.yahoo.com/a/iIIGcOQEnIAtD.XGM_pFxWRRzNqsAQ--#e98bb · 7 May 2014
Just reminds me of this:
http://tinyurl.com/oz9x8y6
Mario Fernandez · 8 May 2014
I have a feeling that the creation "museum" had a lot of business due to curious onlookers. I hope more unbelievers will refrain from funding the ark park in this way. Maybe a trusted source should be appointed to tell the rest of us how cute it looks and let it fail on its own.
Marilyn · 8 May 2014
Name that tune ''''''''''
Mike Elzinga · 8 May 2014
It’s too late to plug up those holes; their brains leaked out years ago.
adrianwht82 · 8 May 2014
Surprise! Surprise!
"comments are disabled for this video"
Oh ye of little (and fragile) faith!
TomS · 8 May 2014
stevaroni said:
Carl Drews said:
How did they cut that flat surface into which the pegs are being driven?
My first thought was about whether this represented the technology that they were going to use to build the rest of the Ark.
My first thought was along similar lines.
I was wondering how long it would take someone to cut down that plank, dress the face of it, bore 7 nice holes, turn 7 smooth pegs and make up 7 mallets, using only early iron-age-tools. Which you'd also have to make yourself or perform a reasonable amount of barter labor to acquire.
There's probably two solid man-weeks in that picture alone.
The absolute, willful blindness of Ark-y-types always boggles my mind.
My first thought was about whether this represented the technology that they were going to use to build the rest of the Ark.
TomS · 8 May 2014
stevaroni said:
Just Bob said:
And I just love the perfectly clean, unscarred, soft, lily-white hands,
Lily white hands.
That's another thing the fundies always forget.
Noah was a middle-easterner, and, like Jesus after him, would have looked more like Yassar Arrafat than Ken Ham.
They'd have certainly been brown an Arabic enough to make them stand out suspiciously in a line of AiG fellows.
And, since we are all the spawn of those 8 members of team Noah that got off the boat, that means all those southern white creationists are actually descended from - gasp! - minorities!
Noah was the father of Shem, Ham, and Japheth, who are the fathers of the three races, so Noah was not of any race. That's one those "micro-evolutionary" post-Flood distinctions. I don't what color Noah's skin could have been - green?
Ron Okimoto · 8 May 2014
Why do you refer to Noah as being a bronze age technician? According to the ICR all pleistocene sediments are post flood. We don't even have pottery pre pleistocene or during the pleistocene, and the pleistocene ends before the bronze age. Beats me how they get a couple million years of sediments deposited in a few centuries after the flood. Noah was a contemporary of Methuselah, I don't recall the Biblical references about how much technology they had developed when Adam and Eve had to figure out how to make clothes from animal skins.
Ron Okimoto · 8 May 2014
TomS said:
stevaroni said:
Carl Drews said:
How did they cut that flat surface into which the pegs are being driven?
My first thought was about whether this represented the technology that they were going to use to build the rest of the Ark.
My first thought was along similar lines.
I was wondering how long it would take someone to cut down that plank, dress the face of it, bore 7 nice holes, turn 7 smooth pegs and make up 7 mallets, using only early iron-age-tools. Which you'd also have to make yourself or perform a reasonable amount of barter labor to acquire.
There's probably two solid man-weeks in that picture alone.
The absolute, willful blindness of Ark-y-types always boggles my mind.
My first thought was about whether this represented the technology that they were going to use to build the rest of the Ark.
Years ago on talk origins KSJJ claimed that it took Noah a hundred years to build the ark. This seems to be the same time line as the AIG. I think that Noah had to build a shelter around the ark to keep it from rotting away before he finished it, and/or it never rained in those days. He also had the ark supported up off the ground while it was being built. I don't know if the supports were stone or they had to be replaced periodically.
Karen S. · 8 May 2014
Don't they make toys for kids something like this, except smaller? A first toolkit!
Karen S. · 8 May 2014
Why do you refer to Noah as being a bronze age technician? According to the ICR all pleistocene sediments are post flood. We don’t even have pottery pre pleistocene or during the pleistocene, and the pleistocene ends before the bronze age. Beats me how they get a couple million years of sediments deposited in a few centuries after the flood. Noah was a contemporary of Methuselah, I don’t recall the Biblical references about how much technology they had developed when Adam and Eve had to figure out how to make clothes from animal skins.
In some of the stranger fundamentalist circles, they claim that amazing technology was lost because of the flood. btw, in the biblical tale God himself makes the clothing from animal hides.
TomS · 8 May 2014
Karen S. said:
In some of the stranger fundamentalist circles, they claim that amazing technology was lost because of the flood. btw, in the biblical tale God himself makes the clothing from animal hides.
In their "fundamentalist" way, that appears to count as reading the Bible "literally", part of what God's "eyewitness" account tells us.
eric · 8 May 2014
Karen S. said:
In some of the stranger fundamentalist circles, they claim that amazing technology was lost because of the flood. btw, in the biblical tale God himself makes the clothing from animal hides.
Evidently it wasn't that amazing, since none of it survived a couple thousand years, even in pieces.
There's a very amusing, circular idiocy to this. In order to get around the problem of wood not being a strong enough building material, these fundies hypothesize ark supertech. This supertech didn't survive the intervening millenia...yet we have wood that old.
TomS · 8 May 2014
eric said:
Karen S. said:
In some of the stranger fundamentalist circles, they claim that amazing technology was lost because of the flood. btw, in the biblical tale God himself makes the clothing from animal hides.
Evidently it wasn't that amazing, since none of it survived a couple thousand years, even in pieces.
There's a very amusing, circular idiocy to this. In order to get around the problem of wood not being a strong enough building material, these fundies hypothesize ark supertech. This supertech didn't survive the intervening millenia...yet we have wood that old.
For someone to take YEC seriously, one must be willing to accept all sorts of contradictions. It isn't only that the science doesn't work.
My favorite is the sorting out the fossils by the Flood. Whatever the mechanism that the Flood Geologists resort to, is means that the complex specified pattern of fossils, one which is consistent with evolution over long times, one which would could not occur by "pure chance", one which would violate the creationist version of the "2nd law of thermodynamics", and one which the Bible doesn't have a hint about - well, that is what "hydrodynamic sorting" or whatever is supposed to produce.
Just Bob · 8 May 2014
TomS said:
...that is what "hydrodynamic sorting" or whatever is supposed to produce.
Gee, turbulence strong enough to do that would be pretty hard on a gigantic, all-wooden floating box, wouldn't it?
TomS · 8 May 2014
Just Bob said:
TomS said:
...that is what "hydrodynamic sorting" or whatever is supposed to produce.
Gee, turbulence strong enough to do that would be pretty hard on a gigantic, all-wooden floating box, wouldn't it?
Every once in a while, even though I have been interested in this so many years, someone mades a comment, and I can't help but pause in wonderment about how mind-bogglingy stupid is YEC.
Thank you.
Doc Bill · 8 May 2014
The Ark is being built right at the head of a narrow valley that channels air, the westerlies, to the valley below. Sometimes the breezes can be so strong as to cause damage. It's quite possible that the Ark will be tall enough and wide enough to severely disrupt the westerlies.
Thus, we should be on the lookout for the following headline:
"Ark Park Breaks Wind"
Mike Elzinga · 8 May 2014
TomS said:
Just Bob said:
TomS said:
...that is what "hydrodynamic sorting" or whatever is supposed to produce.
Gee, turbulence strong enough to do that would be pretty hard on a gigantic, all-wooden floating box, wouldn't it?
Every once in a while, even though I have been interested in this so many years, someone mades a comment, and I can't help but pause in wonderment about how mind-bogglingy stupid is YEC.
Thank you.
Ham even had Witcomb reading about the “specifics” of the flood from their holy book; fountains of the deep erupting, “canopy” suddenly becoming unstable and condensing.
Just thinking about the mechanisms involved in keeping a “canopy” in place makes no sense. If it was vapor, why didn’t it block significant amounts of sunlight? Why did the blackbody radiation from all that water vapor back towards the surface of the Earth NOT broil everything on the planet? Why didn’t that vapor load contribute to the atmospheric pressure? Superheated steam coming up from the Earth’s mantle would broil everything also.
The MINIMUM energy deposition onto the Earth’s surface would be the scenario in which all the water came down from outer space; something like 1.6 x 108 watts per square meter over every square meter of the Earth’s surface for 40 days and nights. In that case, the temperature of the Earth’s atmosphere and all that steam would climb to something like 11,000 degrees Fahrenheit.
A little further analysis demonstrates - when accounting for the energy going into the converting all that ice to steam and expanding the atmosphere and steam in the gravitational field of the Earth - that temperature rise would take place in less than week, and the pressure of the atmosphere loaded with all that steam would be over 800 atmospheres.
That’s the minimum energy scenario. Moving all that rock around to gouge out the ocean basins and pile up the continents and mountains of today would require far more energy. Imagine the tsunamis caused by the movement of all that rock. The rock would have to be molten in order to have frozen into the continental and mountain structures we see today.
An ark navigating in such huge tsunamis, in an 11,000 degrees Fahrenheit atmosphere, while hermetically sealed (with all those animals and their waste products inside) to withstand a pressure of over 800 atmospheres would have to be made of something other than wood.
And there isn’t an energy scenario that would be “gentler” than what the minimum energy scenario would be to the ark.
This is but one of the major problems with outfits like AiG. Their “science” is so bad, - and their “PhD scientists” have to bend and break every scientific concept in order to make them fit their sectarian world view – that the appeal can be only to the ignorant and fearful among us. Ham has apparently found his niche here in the US.
It is going to be interesting to see what they will discover when they try to make that wooden structure stand up on dry land; nothing will be “authentic” any more. Strength doesn’t scale linearly with weight. Any bets on the cheating that will go on?
Mike Elzinga · 8 May 2014
Doc Bill said:
The Ark is being built right at the head of a narrow valley that channels air, the westerlies, to the valley below. Sometimes the breezes can be so strong as to cause damage. It's quite possible that the Ark will be tall enough and wide enough to severely disrupt the westerlies.
Thus, we should be on the lookout for the following headline:
"Ark Park Breaks Wind"
Just the force of wind pressure alone on that structure will cause severe problems. Add those forces to the issues with the weight-to-strength ratios for a wooden structure of that size and it won’t be just the wind that breaks.
Karen S. · 8 May 2014
Evidently it wasn’t that amazing, since none of it survived a couple thousand years, even in pieces.
But it really was quite amazing! It was greater than any technology we have today, and yet magically vanished without a trace. (Maybe they left their amazing stuff in an unlocked camel?)
AltairIV · 8 May 2014
Ron Okimoto said:
Years ago on talk origins KSJJ claimed that it took Noah a hundred years to build the ark. This seems to be the same time line as the AIG. I think that Noah had to build a shelter around the ark to keep it from rotting away before he finished it, and/or it never rained in those days. He also had the ark supported up off the ground while it was being built. I don't know if the supports were stone or they had to be replaced periodically.
Remember, the world was supposed to be under a water canopy in those days. There wasn't any rain, but there was a super greenhouse effect, so everything grew at fantastic rates and to gargantuan sizes. Noah And Sons would doubtlessly have spent most of their time just cleaning away the super-sized mushrooms and giant termites gnawing away at the wood.
ksplawn · 8 May 2014
AltairIV said:
Remember, the world was supposed to be under a water canopy in those days. There wasn't any rain, but there was a super greenhouse effect, so everything grew at fantastic rates and to gargantuan sizes. Noah And Sons would doubtlessly have spent most of their time just cleaning away the super-sized mushrooms and giant termites gnawing away at the wood.
Evidently it wasn’t that amazing, since none of it survived a couple thousand years, even in pieces.
But it really was quite amazing! It was greater than any technology we have today, and yet magically vanished without a trace. (Maybe they left their amazing stuff in an unlocked camel?)
Biodegradable. They were very eco-aware in those days. That's why God killed them off; buncha hippies!
Matt Young · 8 May 2014
That’s why God killed them off; buncha hippies!
Before the Deluge, you will recall, the Lord permitted Noah to speak in defence of his fellow mortals. He evidently stuttered. You know the result.
— Giraudoux, The Madwoman of Chaillot (Valency adaptation)
Ian Derthal · 8 May 2014
The fact that so many Americans lap this sort of thing up without question is simply depressing.
Ian Derthal · 8 May 2014
Still:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNB9idDtbCI
Ken Phelps · 8 May 2014
Mike Elzinga said:
TomS said:
Just Bob said:
TomS said:
Clearly a General Products hull.
...that is what "hydrodynamic sorting" or whatever is supposed to produce.
Gee, turbulence strong enough to do that would be pretty hard on a gigantic, all-wooden floating box, wouldn't it?
Every once in a while, even though I have been interested in this so many years, someone mades a comment, and I can't help but pause in wonderment about how mind-bogglingy stupid is YEC.
Thank you.
Ham even had Witcomb reading about the “specifics” of the flood from their holy book; fountains of the deep erupting, “canopy” suddenly becoming unstable and condensing.
Just thinking about the mechanisms involved in keeping a “canopy” in place makes no sense. If it was vapor, why didn’t it block significant amounts of sunlight? Why did the blackbody radiation from all that water vapor back towards the surface of the Earth NOT broil everything on the planet? Why didn’t that vapor load contribute to the atmospheric pressure? Superheated steam coming up from the Earth’s mantle would broil everything also.
The MINIMUM energy deposition onto the Earth’s surface would be the scenario in which all the water came down from outer space; something like 1.6 x 108 watts per square meter over every square meter of the Earth’s surface for 40 days and nights. In that case, the temperature of the Earth’s atmosphere and all that steam would climb to something like 11,000 degrees Fahrenheit.
A little further analysis demonstrates - when accounting for the energy going into the converting all that ice to steam and expanding the atmosphere and steam in the gravitational field of the Earth - that temperature rise would take place in less than week, and the pressure of the atmosphere loaded with all that steam would be over 800 atmospheres.
That’s the minimum energy scenario. Moving all that rock around to gouge out the ocean basins and pile up the continents and mountains of today would require far more energy. Imagine the tsunamis caused by the movement of all that rock. The rock would have to be molten in order to have frozen into the continental and mountain structures we see today.
An ark navigating in such huge tsunamis, in an 11,000 degrees Fahrenheit atmosphere, while hermetically sealed (with all those animals and their waste products inside) to withstand a pressure of over 800 atmospheres would have to be made of something other than wood.
And there isn’t an energy scenario that would be “gentler” than what the minimum energy scenario would be to the ark.
This is but one of the major problems with outfits like AiG. Their “science” is so bad, - and their “PhD scientists” have to bend and break every scientific concept in order to make them fit their sectarian world view – that the appeal can be only to the ignorant and fearful among us. Ham has apparently found his niche here in the US.
It is going to be interesting to see what they will discover when they try to make that wooden structure stand up on dry land; nothing will be “authentic” any more. Strength doesn’t scale linearly with weight. Any bets on the cheating that will go on?
https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnV3c7ezyAwB6-7P48F8V2hKvC_p0jwJ9c · 8 May 2014
Ron Okimoto said:
Why do you refer to Noah as being a bronze age technician? According to the ICR all pleistocene sediments are post flood. We don't even have pottery pre pleistocene or during the pleistocene, and the pleistocene ends before the bronze age. Beats me how they get a couple million years of sediments deposited in a few centuries after the flood. Noah was a contemporary of Methuselah, I don't recall the Biblical references about how much technology they had developed when Adam and Eve had to figure out how to make clothes from animal skins.
According to Genesis 4, metallurgy (apparently in both bronze and iron), nomad's tents, and musical instruments were all invented by the children of Lamech (not Noah's father -- a distant cousin by the same name), Tubal-cain, Jabal, and Jubal, who were apparently Noah's contemporaries (none of them are listed as having children of their own, implying that they were the last generation of Cain's descendants before the Flood). Some extrabiblical traditions make their sister Naamah Noah's wife, but the flood story in Genesis has no named female characters.
Rolf · 9 May 2014
Remember, the world was supposed to be under a water canopy in those days. There wasn’t any rain, but there was a super greenhouse effect, so everything grew at fantastic rates and to gargantuan sizes. Noah And Sons would doubtlessly have spent most of their time just cleaning away the super-sized mushrooms and giant termites gnawing away at the wood.
I guess the extremely hypothetical water canopy must have been studied before, but I wonder how anything like that could exist in orbit around the Earth? And even if it dit, what process or force could possibly make it suddenly fall down? Could it exist as a fluid, would it not be frozen? I suppose there may be many more questions that should be asked of the canopyists. To me it seems like magic is the best possible explanation, an explanation that has the advantage of being compatible with Intelligent Design as well.
Rolf · 9 May 2014
Oops, seems Ken Phelps answered my question(s). I knew there were more problems than what I mentioned. A creationist wouldn't even know how or what to ask so he wouldn't understand any of the answers anyway. Besides it's got to be true, that's what the books says. Magic or not? Who knows? LOL.
xubist · 9 May 2014
Credit where it's due: AIG's website has a section on arguments that Creationists should not use, and the notion of a vapor canopy is on that do-not-use list. The credit is only partial, however, because AIG's criteria for deeming an argument worthy of rejection is how effective that argument is as a propaganda tool—the truth or falsity of the argument don't enter into it.
Rikki_Tikki_Taalik · 9 May 2014
https://me.yahoo.com/a/iIIGcOQEnIAtD.XGM_pFxWRRzNqsAQ--#e98bb said:
Just reminds me of this:
http://tinyurl.com/oz9x8y6
I had one of those !
Marilyn said:
Name that tune ''''''''''
Hmm, I really tried but couldn't come up with anything. But, shot in the dark here, if it has anything to do with the Ark Park this is my guess.
Karen S. · 9 May 2014
Just thinking about the mechanisms involved in keeping a “canopy” in place makes no sense.
That's the thing...you aren't supposed to do any thinking.
eric · 9 May 2014
xubist said:
Credit where it's due: AIG's website has a section on arguments that Creationists should not use, and the notion of a vapor canopy is on that do-not-use list.
You've probably just stated the only argument against it that FL will pay attention to....
AIG's criteria for deeming an argument worthy of rejection is how effective that argument is as a propaganda tool—the truth or falsity of the argument don't enter into it.
...because he tends to think the same way.
adrianwht82 · 9 May 2014
Marilyn said:
Name that tune ''''''''''
Is it Dire Straits "Money for Nothing"?
MememicBottleneck · 9 May 2014
Anybody want to buy a wooden hammer? I noticed in the video, Ham is selling his for a million dollar donation. Not even the military charges that much.
Mike Elzinga · 9 May 2014
xubist said:
Credit where it's due: AIG's website has a section on arguments that Creationists should not use, and the notion of a vapor canopy is on that do-not-use list. The credit is only partial, however, because AIG's criteria for deeming an argument worthy of rejection is how effective that argument is as a propaganda tool—the truth or falsity of the argument don't enter into it.
If I am recalling correctly, in the past, the scientific calculations against a “canopy” were so direct – a high school physics student can do them – that the creationists had to go to something involving moving continents, gouging out ocean basins, and superheated steam coming up from fissures in the Earth’s crust.
However, this painted them even tighter into the corner in which they had already painted themselves. The energies for melting, moving, gouging, and building up rock formations is far greater than just ice raining down from outer space.
This is the peculiar thing about the ID/creationists; if you refute their scenarios with high school level science – and you can do this easily with most of their “science” - they immediately jump to “advanced” concepts in science and try to bamboozle you. They always try to outdo you in citing papers or tossing around concepts from more and more advanced levels.
A favorite trick these days is to Google a few words on the Internet to come up with a paper that they claim refutes the findings of science. They never read these papers; and they can’t comprehend them even if their lives depended on it. It is their way of arguing by citing “authority” while counting on your being intimidated by the ploy.
Each time they do this, they just dig themselves into deeper trouble as far as the scientific community is concerned; but their followers swoon over the “encyclopedic knowledge” of their leaders. Duane Gish and Henry Morris introduced this practice way back in the 1970s.
As we can see from Ham’s repeated replay of the debate with Bill Nye, they like to ride on the backs of high profile spokespersons for science while repeatedly jabbering “refutations” that they didn’t think of during a debate.
For those familiar with the likes of Sal Cordova, you will note that they also like to latch onto a real scientists and pretend they are a peer who “disagrees” with the scientists. They name-drop and “refute” arguments as though they are regulars among the practicing scientists. They will climb on the back of a scientist, peer over the shoulder of the scientist, and jabber and disagree at the drop of a hat.
This is the way of the pseudoscientist trying to gain name recognition and “authority” without actually doing any of the work.
PaulBC · 9 May 2014
"I thought it would have been a very nice ceremony, but for the fact that they were talking nonsense."
I skimmed over it without audio, and it still looked atrocious. Men in suits with MacBooks, wireless mikes, and toy hammers.
Based on the picture and description, I thought there might be something like an Amish barn raising. That at least has genuine cultural (and practical) significance. It is also well beyond bronze age technology.
Marilyn · 9 May 2014
Rikki_Tikki_Taalik said:
Marilyn said:
Name that tune ''''''''''
Hmm, I really tried but couldn't come up with anything. But, shot in the dark here, if it has anything to do with the Ark Park this is my guess.
adrianwht82 said:
Marilyn said:
Name that tune ''''''''''
Is it Dire Straits "Money for Nothing"?
Well I was thinking more on the lines of "Rain drops keep falling on my head" your suggestions are also fitting unless the builders are volunteering, going to be working in their spare time, for free.
https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawkfz_ydidIaI_m6NKfKsDtTO1rKHmi8B-c · 9 May 2014
Name that tune """"
How about the ACME Wooden Anvil Chorus? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFZoaTCrggQ
Alan Bates
phhht · 9 May 2014
Marilyn said:
Name that tune ''''''''''
Ah yes, that's It Ain't Necessarily So, from Porgy and Bess.
If I had a hammer (I'd hammer in the morning)*
* Disclaimer - there is no consensus on exactly how long a Biblical morning is or what part of a "Day" morning might consist of.
fnxtr · 9 May 2014
Marilyn said:
Name that tune ''''''''''
Stevie Wonder, "Superstition".
Henry J · 9 May 2014
Name that tune ”””””
"Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale...
A tale of a fateful trip...
That started from this tropic port...
Aboard this huge Rubik's cube pretending to be a ship..."
(Yes, I know those words don't fit the tune! :D )
stevaroni · 9 May 2014
fnxtr said:
Stevie Wonder, "Superstition".
John Fogerty: "Iiiiii wanna know.... have you ever seen the rain?"
Henry J · 9 May 2014
Some extrabiblical traditions make their sister Naamah Noah’s wife, but the flood story in Genesis has no named female characters.
Naamah? And here I thought his wife would be named Joan...
Charley Horse · 10 May 2014
I'm troubled by that image. Not because it appears to be all oak components but because of the round pegs in round holes. That is not close to the mental image I have of AIG.
Matt Young · 10 May 2014
This may be more information than anyone wants, but Dan Phelps tells us,
The hard copy of The Grant County News arrived today and had a sidebar on the Ark Park that wasn't in the online version. From the 5/8/14 edition, page 1:
WHAT'S NEXT FOR THE ARK?
- Mid May 2014-All site permits approved.
- May 2014-Site excavation starts
- June 2014- Sewer construction begins
- Aug. 2014- Foundation work begins
- Oct. 2014- Foundation poured for Ark
- Jan. 2015- Towers near completion
- Feb. 2015- Timber erection begins
- June 2015- Siding begins
- Aug. 2015- Timbers complete
- Nov. 2015- Ark enclosed/interior work begins
- March 2016- Site work/paving and amenities begin
- May - June 2016 - Commissioning of building systems
https://me.yahoo.com/a/JxVN0eQFqtmgoY7wC1cZM44ET_iAanxHQmLgYgX_Zhn8#57cad · 10 May 2014
Matt Young said:
This may be more information than anyone wants, but Dan Phelps tells us,
The hard copy of The Grant County News arrived today and had a sidebar on the Ark Park that wasn't in the online version. From the 5/8/14 edition, page 1:
WHAT'S NEXT FOR THE ARK?
- Mid May 2014-All site permits approved.
- May 2014-Site excavation starts
- June 2014- Sewer construction begins
- Aug. 2014- Foundation work begins
- Oct. 2014- Foundation poured for Ark
- Jan. 2015- Towers near completion
- Feb. 2015- Timber erection begins
- June 2015- Siding begins
- Aug. 2015- Timbers complete
- Nov. 2015- Ark enclosed/interior work begins
- March 2016- Site work/paving and amenities begin
- May - June 2016 - Commissioning of building systems
Soon after, the great fun of celebrating genocide begins.
Glen Davidson
Just Bob · 10 May 2014
https://me.yahoo.com/a/JxVN0eQFqtmgoY7wC1cZM44ET_iAanxHQmLgYgX_Zhn8#57cad said:
Soon after, the great fun of celebrating genocide begins.
You know, there ought to be a different word. Genocide is the extermination of a particular group. What the loving and merciful god did in Genesis was far beyond that in unrepentant evil and horror. He killed EVERYBODY. (OK, so he missed less than a minyan. That's close enough to 'everybody' for government purposes. Hitler, Stalin, and Genghis were mere pikers in the mass murder business.)
Dave Luckett · 10 May 2014
Just Bob said:Genocide is the extermination of a particular group.
It means the murder of a people. An entire people.
What the loving and merciful god did in Genesis was far beyond that in unrepentant evil and horror. He killed EVERYBODY.
I get bogged down in details sometimes. But Just Bob puts his finger on the crux of the matter. God killed EVERYBODY.
It always seemed odd to me. People used to give kids toy models of Noah's Ark, with the animals two by two. The Ark itself was a sort of toy chest. I believe you can still get it in lego.
Only the story is about how everyone drowned. Everyone. God killed everyone.
I remember the Irish Rovers had a hit with "Unicorn" which was about how the unicorns didn't get on board the Ark, because they were "playing silly games" - and the waters came along and... washed them all away.
I heard that for the first time, many many years ago, and despite the studied Irish charm of it all, the jingly-bingle tune, the cultivated whimsicality, the cold horrors came over me.
God killed everyone. Everyone. The men, the women, the fathers, the mothers, the babes in arms, the toddlers held above the engulfing waters until their parents' strength failed, everyone. God killed everybody.
The fundamentalists, the creationists, Ham's entourage, the people driving those pegs - they worship that God. Not just any God, no. This is the God who killed everyone. They worship that God. They worship that God.
If there is a God - and I doubt it - may He forgive them. I confess I can't.
https://me.yahoo.com/a/kYQj4.Y6hsNHh2hA4cxjQS4Dobc-#0cdad · 10 May 2014
Thanks a lot, Bill Nye. The publicity Ken Ham got from his debate with Nye helped him raise the funds to resurrect the Ark park, which was on its death bed from lack of funding. Yet another reason why scientists should never lend their credibility to creationists by getting on a stage with them as though there is a real controversy to debate.
stevaroni · 10 May 2014
Just Bob said:
You know, there ought to be a different word. Genocide is the extermination of a particular group.
Perspective, Bob, Perspective.
From God's point of view, maybe we are just a particular group, maybe "hairless ape batch # 204 on planet V5.
Maybe God has lots of hairless apes and snuffing us out has no more ethical importance than us killing off a crossbreed of domestic livestock we we thought would be a good idea but turned out to be dangerously vicious.
TomS · 10 May 2014
stevaroni said:
Just Bob said:
You know, there ought to be a different word. Genocide is the extermination of a particular group.
Perspective, Bob, Perspective.
From God's point of view, maybe we are just a particular group, maybe "hairless ape batch # 204 on planet V5.
Maybe God has lots of hairless apes and snuffing us out has no more ethical importance than us killing off a crossbreed of domestic livestock we we thought would be a good idea but turned out to be dangerously vicious.
But from the standpoint of the group targeted, is it something to *celebrate*? Make into children's toys? Make a theme park about it? Even if one thinks that it is a fiction - would one make a children's toy out of kidnapping the children of Hamelin?
Karen S. · 10 May 2014
- June 2014- Sewer construction begins
You mean you can't take a dump over the side of the ark? What ever happened to authenticity?
I heard that for the first time, many many years ago, and despite the studied Irish charm of it all, the jingly-bingle tune, the cultivated whimsicality, the cold horrors came over me.
AiG actually has a song about the flood called "Billions of Dead Things". Could you imagine writing a bouncy song about Hurricane Katrina?
Mike Waldteufel · 10 May 2014
Grown men wearing business suits hammering on wooden pegs to commemorate the building of a land-locked pretend boat to celebrate an imaginary mass murder. One does not know whether to laugh or cry.
I
Mike Waldteufel · 10 May 2014
Dave Luckett's post nails it far more eloquently than I could have.
Let us all breathe easy in the knowledge that the biblical god is merely a boogy man in an Iron Age compilation of snuff fiction.
Dave Luckett · 10 May 2014
Karen S. said:
AiG actually has a song about the flood called "Billions of Dead Things". Could you imagine writing a bouncy song about Hurricane Katrina?
Yes. I can imagine that. I can imagine a combination of sickness, craziness, and sociopathy. Hell, imagining extreme characters is (sometimes) my trade.
I used to think that Biblical fundamentalists simply didn't understand the implications of their beliefs. That if you said to them, "You worship a God who cursed everyone unjustly, drowned nearly everyone, a God who mandates slavery, genocide, and mass infanticide, and who promises to send most human beings to eternal torture," and quoted the passages in their holy book where that's exactly what is written, that would cause them to think again.
No such of a thing. To those people, those are features, not bugs.
I used to think that they were merely misled, and unthinking. Nuh-uh. What they are is evil.
TomS · 11 May 2014
And then there is the attitude to the Apocalypse - the End of the World. And how many people believe that we are living in the End Times.
Rolf · 11 May 2014
Only the story is about how everyone drowned. Everyone. God killed everyone.
I suggest biocide instead of genocide for killing everyone everything?
OTOH, nothing makes sense in the mental eclipse of creationism.
harold · 11 May 2014
Dave Luckett said:
Karen S. said:
AiG actually has a song about the flood called "Billions of Dead Things". Could you imagine writing a bouncy song about Hurricane Katrina?
Yes. I can imagine that. I can imagine a combination of sickness, craziness, and sociopathy. Hell, imagining extreme characters is (sometimes) my trade.
I used to think that Biblical fundamentalists simply didn't understand the implications of their beliefs. That if you said to them, "You worship a God who cursed everyone unjustly, drowned nearly everyone, a God who mandates slavery, genocide, and mass infanticide, and who promises to send most human beings to eternal torture," and quoted the passages in their holy book where that's exactly what is written, that would cause them to think again.
No such of a thing. To those people, those are features, not bugs.
I used to think that they were merely misled, and unthinking. Nuh-uh. What they are is evil.
What you are describing is the willingness of authoritarian followers to accept anything commanded by authority as valid.
Virtually all fundamentalists are authoritarian followers, but by no means all authoritarian followers are fundamentalist.
I think it's important to understand that there are a lot of authoritarian followers in the world - everywhere - and to understand that constant vigilance and resistance is needed to prevent demagogues from successfully manipulating them all the time.
harold · 11 May 2014
Karen S. said:
I heard that for the first time, many many years ago, and despite the studied Irish charm of it all, the jingly-bingle tune, the cultivated whimsicality, the cold horrors came over me.
AiG actually has a song about the flood called "Billions of Dead Things". Could you imagine writing a bouncy song about Hurricane Katrina?
There are no comments on the video. Probably no-one can tell whether this thing is supposed to be serious or a parody. The creepiness is extreme.
harold · 11 May 2014
https://me.yahoo.com/a/kYQj4.Y6hsNHh2hA4cxjQS4Dobc-#0cdad said:
Thanks a lot, Bill Nye. The publicity Ken Ham got from his debate with Nye helped him raise the funds to resurrect the Ark park, which was on its death bed from lack of funding. Yet another reason why scientists should never lend their credibility to creationists by getting on a stage with them as though there is a real controversy to debate.
I see your point, but I think Bill Nye did far more good than harm.
Yes, because Bill Nye made Ken Ham look foolish, some cognitive dissonance of the already lost was probably dealt with by doubling down on Ken Ham.
Bill Nye probably opened the minds of some of those who could be reached, though.
The previous knock on scientists debating creationists was that, in the pre-internet days of kodachrome slide decks and chalk boards, mumbling, unprepared scientists made it look as if the creationist "won" the debate. That didn't happen here.
I don't agree that pretending it doesn't exist is a good strategy.
Other than the thing being tax subsidized, I don't give a damn about this stupid ark thing. There will always be fools. If Ken Ham wasn't building an ark park to take their money, someone else would be building something equally moronic. Ken Ham isn't much of a threat.
John Freshwater is a threat, and so are others like him. Freshwater is a bullying sneak, well socialized into the right wing mainstream, who knows how to play the martyr and cost society a vast amount of money, while aggressively undermining public education. I doubt if any of Ham's followers even send their children to public schools.
yodecat · 11 May 2014
Howdy folks!
Why are you all spending your precious time talking about what a bunch of nutjobs are doing? Of course they're crazy, the ones who aren't are liars and grifters. Of course the whole clusterfuck is nuts.
Just Bob · 11 May 2014
yodecat said:
Howdy folks!
Why are you all spending your precious time talking about what a bunch of nutjobs are doing? Of course they're crazy, the ones who aren't are liars and grifters. Of course the whole clusterfuck is nuts.
Well, we wouldn't much care, except they're doing it partly on our tax money, and they work night and day to get our tax money to pay them to teach their bullshit to our kids in public schools.
yodecat · 11 May 2014
Well, OK. Whatever. I can't worry so much about what the morons are doing.
BTW none of my tax money is going to them; I live on the Left Coast.
Just Bob said:
yodecat said:
Howdy folks!
Why are you all spending your precious time talking about what a bunch of nutjobs are doing? Of course they're crazy, the ones who aren't are liars and grifters. Of course the whole clusterfuck is nuts.
Well, we wouldn't much care, except they're doing it partly on our tax money, and they work night and day to get our tax money to pay them to teach their bullshit to our kids in public schools.
Scott F · 11 May 2014
yodecat said:
Well, OK. Whatever. I can't worry so much about what the morons are doing.
BTW none of my tax money is going to them; I live on the Left Coast.
Yeah, maybe. Depends. Your federal tax dollars go to support local schools too.
harold · 12 May 2014
yodecat said:
Well, OK. Whatever. I can't worry so much about what the morons are doing.
BTW none of my tax money is going to them; I live on the Left Coast.
Just Bob said:
yodecat said:
Howdy folks!
Why are you all spending your precious time talking about what a bunch of nutjobs are doing? Of course they're crazy, the ones who aren't are liars and grifters. Of course the whole clusterfuck is nuts.
Well, we wouldn't much care, except they're doing it partly on our tax money, and they work night and day to get our tax money to pay them to teach their bullshit to our kids in public schools.
First of all, it's all one country. California, Oregon, and Washington are affected by what happens in Kentucky.
Second of all, one of the very first places where creationists tried to insert sectarian science denial into science classes was California.
Third of all, the Discovery Institute is in Seattle.
Fourth of all, although CA isn't currently enduring a major creationist challenge to the public school science curriculum, they are enduring the same attacks on funding of public schools and research universities as the rest of the country. It's all part of the same thing. On one end of the right wing spectrum we have those who oppose public education and deny science. Thanks to their gravitational pull, the idea that attacking public education is respectable cuts across the political spectrum.
Fifth of all, your comment fits into the standard "I commented to say I don't care enough to comment" category. I've always been puzzled by this. There are literally millions of blogs about topics that I don't take much interest in. I don't seek them out to make comments about not being interested enough to comment. Since you're here, can you clarify the motivations of one who does?
You are partly correct that, as I noted above in a different comment, Ken Ham individually is not a major threat. He is tax subsidized, which is wrong, but in a fairly minor way. He advocates isolation for his followers. But he also supports and empowers those who do more directly attack mainstream public education, and who do more directly force public policy based on science denial.
eric · 12 May 2014
yodecat said:
Well, OK. Whatever. I can't worry so much about what the morons are doing.
BTW none of my tax money is going to them; I live on the Left Coast.
Their representatives help make your laws. Their senators approve or reject your supreme court candidates. And, of course, if they succeed in electing a president of their liking, he/she would be your president too, with all the foreign and domestic policy implications that entails.
Tea Party republicans shut down the government for over a month not even a year ago. That is why they are worth talking about.
Just Bob · 12 May 2014
The West Coast is far from free of religious crazies, white supremacists, neo-Nazis, paramilitary militias, and plain, home-grown creationists. Remember Harold Camping and the End of the World? And that was in San Francisco, for Christ's sake! And he was 'educated' at Berkeley!
Matt Young · 12 May 2014
Not entirely irrelevant to this discussion, Kentucky was recently 48th in the US in the fraction of high school graduates over 25, according to this map, which I first saw in yesterday's Daily Kos. Well, at least it is up from 50th in 2000. (Click States and make sure the Indicators are Educational Attainment, High School Attainment, Total, and Percent, and that the year is 2010.)
Tenncrain · 12 May 2014
Well regarded historian Ronald Numbers has described southern California as historically a hotbed for fundamentalism.
Indeed, the Institute for Creation Research had its main headquarters for many decades in Santee California, just outside of San Diego. When I was a 1990s kid, this very young Tennessee YEC would eagerly await ICR literature in the mailbox (even after the internet became popular, our household banned the internet, apparently to keep out heresy) that had been cooked up on west coast. Among other things, ICR even built their own creation "museum" long before AIG's in Kentucky. ICR offloaded their museum upon moving to Texas, but the facility remains open today near San Diego.
Often lost in the shadows of the likes of ICR is the Geoscience Research Institute which is a creation "research" facility based in Loma Linda California. The GRI is officially part of the SDA Church.
Even northern California has contributed to anti-evolutionism. Can't forget that Phillip Johnson - the father of ID-type creationism - was a conservative professor that taught law and advocated ID from the not-exactly-right leaning University of California at Berkeley.
harold · 12 May 2014
And he's not the only famous Northern Californian creationist:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_H._Kenyon
By the way, to the best of my knowledge, neither University of Kentucky nor University of Louisville has any science denying creationists among their biology faculty. I'd say "biomedical" faculty but can't be sure that some of the clinical faculty might not be privately creationist.
david.starling.macmillan · 13 May 2014
Matt Young said:
This may be more information than anyone wants, but Dan Phelps tells us,
The hard copy of The Grant County News arrived today and had a sidebar on the Ark Park that wasn't in the online version. From the 5/8/14 edition, page 1:
WHAT'S NEXT FOR THE ARK?
- Mid May 2014-All site permits approved.
- May 2014-Site excavation starts
- June 2014- Sewer construction begins
- Aug. 2014- Foundation work begins
- Oct. 2014- Foundation poured for Ark
Wait, they're building a foundation? Boats don't have foundations; they have keels. Faithless fellows.
I wonder if the described-in-Genesis Ark (300cb x 50cb x 30cb, three decks, wood) could even support itself on land without a permanent fixed foundation.
TomS · 13 May 2014
david.starling.macmillan said:
I wonder if the described-in-Genesis Ark (300cb x 50cb x 30cb, three decks, wood) could even support itself on land without a permanent fixed foundation.
The Church of the Transfiguration, Kizhi Pogost, is made entirely of wood, without even metal nails, is 37 meters (more than 74 cubits) tall, and mostly without foundation.
Just Bob · 13 May 2014
TomS said:
david.starling.macmillan said:
I wonder if the described-in-Genesis Ark (300cb x 50cb x 30cb, three decks, wood) could even support itself on land without a permanent fixed foundation.
The Church of the Transfiguration, Kizhi Pogost, is made entirely of wood, without even metal nails, is 37 meters (more than 74 cubits) tall, and mostly without foundation.
Hot damn! Been there and seen that! When I was there a couple of years ago, they were REbuilding what passed for a foundation to keep it from falling apart.
bigdakine · 18 May 2014
To bad the ark was too small for Titanosaurus.
Henry J · 19 June 2014
bigdakine said:
To bad the ark was too small for Titanosaurus.
So it had to settle for titmouse instead?
stevaroni · 19 June 2014
Watch out Ark Park! there's a new Creation museum opening soon!
According to the Idaho Statesman,
A group of Idahoans dismayed by science education have opened the Northwest Science Museum offering a Biblical explanation of Earth's origins and disputing other explanations, such as evolution.
I assume by "dismayed by science education", they mean that science education actually exists, and this dismays them.
That's OK, though, because, according to their website, they intend to teach the children such scientific gems as....
“Skeptics say, ‘well, how could Noah bring dinosaurs on the ark if they’re that big?’ And I agree,” a curator tells two kids.
“But yet they found a baby diploducus in Argentina — a complete skeleton, 27 inches long,” he continues. “Noah, being the smart man he was … he’s going to bring a baby or young one along that’s gonna live longer, reproduce a lot more.”
According to the website, they one day intend to do all this in a building suspiciously reminiscent of Noah's Ark.
At the moment, though, they're only setting up a temporary museum in some dude's basement, apparently while they cut down all the requisite gopher wood. Seemingly, they hope the museum will, of all things, evolve, into something big the future.
Henry J · 23 June 2014
Seemingly, they hope the museum will, of all things, evolve, into something big the future.
Well, given the absence of intelligent design, what else can they do?
92 Comments
Just Bob · 7 May 2014
The 'Ark Park' is to an actual ark as Space Mountain is to actual spaceflight.
Carl Drews · 7 May 2014
How did they cut that flat surface into which the pegs are being driven?
Matt Young · 7 May 2014
SWT · 7 May 2014
stevaroni · 7 May 2014
DS · 7 May 2014
Just Bob · 7 May 2014
Maybe I'm wrong, but... the log was cut flat and smooth in a lumber mill with a huge, steel circular or band saw. The pegs and mallet handles are standard 1" or 1 1/4" dowels from Home Depot. And the mallet heads are lopped-off sections of landscape timbers from the same source.
Yep, there's plenty of symbolism there.
Just Bob · 7 May 2014
And I just love the perfectly clean, unscarred, soft, lily-white hands, the business suits, and what looks like the armrest of a wheelchair in the lower left.
That's going to be one authentic ark.
DavidK · 7 May 2014
Are they going to show the new "Noah" movie at the park?
stevaroni · 7 May 2014
https://me.yahoo.com/a/iIIGcOQEnIAtD.XGM_pFxWRRzNqsAQ--#e98bb · 7 May 2014
Just reminds me of this:
http://tinyurl.com/oz9x8y6
Mario Fernandez · 8 May 2014
I have a feeling that the creation "museum" had a lot of business due to curious onlookers. I hope more unbelievers will refrain from funding the ark park in this way.
Maybe a trusted source should be appointed to tell the rest of us how cute it looks and let it fail on its own.
Marilyn · 8 May 2014
Name that tune ''''''''''
Mike Elzinga · 8 May 2014
It’s too late to plug up those holes; their brains leaked out years ago.
adrianwht82 · 8 May 2014
Surprise! Surprise!
"comments are disabled for this video"
Oh ye of little (and fragile) faith!
TomS · 8 May 2014
TomS · 8 May 2014
Ron Okimoto · 8 May 2014
Why do you refer to Noah as being a bronze age technician? According to the ICR all pleistocene sediments are post flood. We don't even have pottery pre pleistocene or during the pleistocene, and the pleistocene ends before the bronze age. Beats me how they get a couple million years of sediments deposited in a few centuries after the flood. Noah was a contemporary of Methuselah, I don't recall the Biblical references about how much technology they had developed when Adam and Eve had to figure out how to make clothes from animal skins.
Ron Okimoto · 8 May 2014
Karen S. · 8 May 2014
Don't they make toys for kids something like this, except smaller? A first toolkit!
Karen S. · 8 May 2014
TomS · 8 May 2014
eric · 8 May 2014
TomS · 8 May 2014
Just Bob · 8 May 2014
TomS · 8 May 2014
Doc Bill · 8 May 2014
The Ark is being built right at the head of a narrow valley that channels air, the westerlies, to the valley below. Sometimes the breezes can be so strong as to cause damage. It's quite possible that the Ark will be tall enough and wide enough to severely disrupt the westerlies.
Thus, we should be on the lookout for the following headline:
"Ark Park Breaks Wind"
Mike Elzinga · 8 May 2014
Mike Elzinga · 8 May 2014
Karen S. · 8 May 2014
AltairIV · 8 May 2014
ksplawn · 8 May 2014
Matt Young · 8 May 2014
Ian Derthal · 8 May 2014
The fact that so many Americans lap this sort of thing up without question is simply depressing.
Ian Derthal · 8 May 2014
Still:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNB9idDtbCI
Ken Phelps · 8 May 2014
https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawnV3c7ezyAwB6-7P48F8V2hKvC_p0jwJ9c · 8 May 2014
Rolf · 9 May 2014
Rolf · 9 May 2014
Oops, seems Ken Phelps answered my question(s). I knew there were more problems than what I mentioned. A creationist wouldn't even know how or what to ask so he wouldn't understand any of the answers anyway. Besides it's got to be true, that's what the books says. Magic or not? Who knows? LOL.
xubist · 9 May 2014
Credit where it's due: AIG's website has a section on arguments that Creationists should not use, and the notion of a vapor canopy is on that do-not-use list. The credit is only partial, however, because AIG's criteria for deeming an argument worthy of rejection is how effective that argument is as a propaganda tool—the truth or falsity of the argument don't enter into it.
Rikki_Tikki_Taalik · 9 May 2014
Karen S. · 9 May 2014
eric · 9 May 2014
adrianwht82 · 9 May 2014
MememicBottleneck · 9 May 2014
Anybody want to buy a wooden hammer? I noticed in the video, Ham is selling his for a million dollar donation. Not even the military charges that much.
Mike Elzinga · 9 May 2014
PaulBC · 9 May 2014
"I thought it would have been a very nice ceremony, but for the fact that they were talking nonsense."
I skimmed over it without audio, and it still looked atrocious. Men in suits with MacBooks, wireless mikes, and toy hammers.
Based on the picture and description, I thought there might be something like an Amish barn raising. That at least has genuine cultural (and practical) significance. It is also well beyond bronze age technology.
Marilyn · 9 May 2014
https://www.google.com/accounts/o8/id?id=AItOawkfz_ydidIaI_m6NKfKsDtTO1rKHmi8B-c · 9 May 2014
Name that tune """"
How about the ACME Wooden Anvil Chorus?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFZoaTCrggQ
Alan Bates
phhht · 9 May 2014
phhht · 9 May 2014
stevaroni · 9 May 2014
fnxtr · 9 May 2014
Henry J · 9 May 2014
stevaroni · 9 May 2014
Henry J · 9 May 2014
Charley Horse · 10 May 2014
I'm troubled by that image. Not because it appears to be all oak components but because of the round pegs in round holes.
That is not close to the mental image I have of AIG.
Matt Young · 10 May 2014
https://me.yahoo.com/a/JxVN0eQFqtmgoY7wC1cZM44ET_iAanxHQmLgYgX_Zhn8#57cad · 10 May 2014
Just Bob · 10 May 2014
Dave Luckett · 10 May 2014
https://me.yahoo.com/a/kYQj4.Y6hsNHh2hA4cxjQS4Dobc-#0cdad · 10 May 2014
Thanks a lot, Bill Nye. The publicity Ken Ham got from his debate with Nye helped him raise the funds to resurrect the Ark park, which was on its death bed from lack of funding. Yet another reason why scientists should never lend their credibility to creationists by getting on a stage with them as though there is a real controversy to debate.
stevaroni · 10 May 2014
TomS · 10 May 2014
Karen S. · 10 May 2014
AltairIV · 10 May 2014
Omnicidal Maniac
Karen S. · 10 May 2014
Mike Waldteufel · 10 May 2014
Grown men wearing business suits hammering on wooden pegs to commemorate the building of a land-locked pretend boat to celebrate an imaginary mass murder. One does not know whether to laugh or cry.
I
Mike Waldteufel · 10 May 2014
Dave Luckett's post nails it far more eloquently than I could have.
Let us all breathe easy in the knowledge that the biblical god is merely a boogy man in an Iron Age compilation of snuff fiction.
Dave Luckett · 10 May 2014
TomS · 11 May 2014
And then there is the attitude to the Apocalypse - the End of the World. And how many people believe that we are living in the End Times.
Rolf · 11 May 2014
everyoneeverything? OTOH, nothing makes sense in the mental eclipse of creationism.harold · 11 May 2014
harold · 11 May 2014
harold · 11 May 2014
yodecat · 11 May 2014
Howdy folks!
Why are you all spending your precious time talking about what a bunch of nutjobs are doing? Of course they're crazy, the ones who aren't are liars and grifters. Of course the whole clusterfuck is nuts.
Just Bob · 11 May 2014
yodecat · 11 May 2014
Scott F · 11 May 2014
harold · 12 May 2014
eric · 12 May 2014
Just Bob · 12 May 2014
The West Coast is far from free of religious crazies, white supremacists, neo-Nazis, paramilitary militias, and plain, home-grown creationists. Remember Harold Camping and the End of the World? And that was in San Francisco, for Christ's sake! And he was 'educated' at Berkeley!
Matt Young · 12 May 2014
Not entirely irrelevant to this discussion, Kentucky was recently 48th in the US in the fraction of high school graduates over 25, according to this map, which I first saw in yesterday's Daily Kos. Well, at least it is up from 50th in 2000. (Click States and make sure the Indicators are Educational Attainment, High School Attainment, Total, and Percent, and that the year is 2010.)
Tenncrain · 12 May 2014
Well regarded historian Ronald Numbers has described southern California as historically a hotbed for fundamentalism.
Indeed, the Institute for Creation Research had its main headquarters for many decades in Santee California, just outside of San Diego. When I was a 1990s kid, this very young Tennessee YEC would eagerly await ICR literature in the mailbox (even after the internet became popular, our household banned the internet, apparently to keep out heresy) that had been cooked up on west coast. Among other things, ICR even built their own creation "museum" long before AIG's in Kentucky. ICR offloaded their museum upon moving to Texas, but the facility remains open today near San Diego.
Often lost in the shadows of the likes of ICR is the Geoscience Research Institute which is a creation "research" facility based in Loma Linda California. The GRI is officially part of the SDA Church.
Even northern California has contributed to anti-evolutionism. Can't forget that Phillip Johnson - the father of ID-type creationism - was a conservative professor that taught law and advocated ID from the not-exactly-right leaning University of California at Berkeley.
harold · 12 May 2014
And he's not the only famous Northern Californian creationist:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_H._Kenyon
By the way, to the best of my knowledge, neither University of Kentucky nor University of Louisville has any science denying creationists among their biology faculty. I'd say "biomedical" faculty but can't be sure that some of the clinical faculty might not be privately creationist.
david.starling.macmillan · 13 May 2014
TomS · 13 May 2014
Just Bob · 13 May 2014
bigdakine · 18 May 2014
To bad the ark was too small for Titanosaurus.
Henry J · 19 June 2014
stevaroni · 19 June 2014
Henry J · 23 June 2014